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Dick Cepek 5" Lift?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by cbbr, Oct 27, 2004.

  1. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Anyone ever use a Dick Cepek 5" lift (I found a deal). Specifically the Maxi-Ride springs. Looking at these for the front (the salesman insists that they provide 6" of lift) and an ORD shackle flip w/ either a zero rate or a 2" add-a-leaf for the rear.

    Truck is a '90 3/4 ton Burb soon to have 35's. Light towing and light/moderate crawling after much highway driving is the intended use.
     
  2. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Shackle flips do not belong on tow vehicles. Use lift springs instead.
     
  3. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Disclaimer: This is a theory by Tim that has no basis in experience or fact, so take his advice with a grain of salt.
     
  4. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    I won't be towing anything heavy -camping trailer (converted M105) and the occasional boat. Just out of curosity, what problems would a shackle flip using the ORD bracket and my stock springs cause when towing?
     
  5. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Do a search. There have been long and heated discussions on this subject.
     
  6. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Why don't you tell him since youre an expert on the subject, the search function is pretty worthless right now IIRC.
     
  7. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Because nobody really agrees with me so I'm not going to waste my time typing it out. He can search, find the discussions, and make his own decisions.
     
  8. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    If you cant explain to him why you think it is bad, then I guess we will have to assume you are wrong until you do produce some evidence.
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Ok, I'm wrong, I made it up. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  10. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Thats your answer everytime, time to put up or shut up, let us know why its bad and we will listen, if you have no basis for your opinion, then let the people who have real world experience with a shackle flip and towing answer his question. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  11. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    I wouldn't tow with a shackle flip. The angle of the shackle just doesn't look right for supporting a bunch of weight. Shackle flips are for flexing and soft rides IMHO.

    Doesn't ORD say you are not supposed to tow with the flip?


    BACK ON TOPIC!!!!
    I am unaware that DC is still even making lifts. From what I have seen their lifts seem to be pretty cool, a buddy of mine has a 6" long arm kit from DC on his 3/4 V10 dodge and it rivals the quality of the 7" long arm kit from Skyjacker.
    If I could find one of those DC dodge lifts I would probably grab one for my dodge CTD. The skyjacker 7" long arm double flex is $4,400. /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif

    I don't have any experience with a leaf spring DC lift but I wouldn't be scared of one after seeing my buddies dodge.
     
  12. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    [ QUOTE ]

    Doesn't ORD say you are not supposed to tow with the flip?

    [/ QUOTE ] Legal dissclaimer to protect from lawsuits filed by idiot drivers who blaim a accident caused by lack of skill towing on the shackle flip. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  13. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Just doesnt look right is not a good reason. I agree with not using it in conjuction with soft springs to tow any sizeable load, however the original poster has a 3/4 ton Burb which if its like every other 3/4 ton Burb I have seen has a good sized spring pack. The high spring rate keep the shackle from getting to an angle in which you would see softening of the felt spring rate. I would imagine that by that point, you have overloaded the vehicle anyway. In short, you need to look at what springs you have in conjuction with the shackle flip to make a determination if your towing ability will be hampered or not. If you have some 2" EZ rides with a shackle flip, you probably dont want to tow very much, but with a 3/4 or 1 ton (like I have) then the shackle flip is not an issue. To disregard the spring rates and make a blanket statement that shackle flips are bad for towing is just plain ignorant.
     
  14. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    pulled from the ORD site
    [ QUOTE ]
    # You may wonder why we don't have a Shackle Flip kit for more than 4" of lift. The reason is that to gain more lift, the end of the spring has to drop down twice the desired lift amount. In other words to gain 1 extra inch, we would have to drop the rear of the spring a full 2 inches. This drop at the tail of the spring can become a ground clearance problem and promotes roll-oversteer which is a handling problem in which the rear of the truck startsto feel "loose" under hard cornering with body roll. We've chosen the 4" lift height as the limit for these reasons.

    # Load carrying ability is also a common question. Basically, if you keep the factory overloads, you won’t have any trouble. We've designed the shackle angle to retain as much load carrying ability as possible with a lifted 4wd.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    i have heard from others that towing with a shackle flip causes problems. then ive read that if the rest of the vehicle is set up correctly then you won't have a problem, but i have found no information on how to setup the rest of the truck to tow with a shackle flip with no problems.

    when i was reaserching this for my lift, i desided to go with blocks, prolly for good and build a antiwrap system to help reverse the effects of the blocks (still need to do this). i just don't want to have any problems with towing and yes i do tow alot with my k20.
     
  15. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    As I stated before, with tension shackles, the spring rate is increasing as the shackle compresses.

    With compression shackles, the opposite is true. The springs get SOFTER as the spring compress.

    The numbers are irrelavant. The point is that any sway, bounce, etc., instead of being supported by the springs MORE when comrpressed, the spring will continue to soften. My theory is that compression shackles are more like an "amplifier" of any ill effects that happen while towing, because the springs do not get stiffer as they compress.

    This is also even taking the side loading placed on the rear upper bushing with a shackle flip on the vehicle.

    IMO, a shackle flip is not safe for towing. You can agree or disagree, but you cannot deny the scientific facts that I have repeatedly told you as true.

    A shackle flip does not belong on a towing vehicle. Use springs for that, and leave the shackle flips for your trail rigs.

    I know EVERYONE around here loves shackle flips and hates lift springs. I'm a big shackle flip person myself. But 5 years ago before shackle flips were "cool" everyone that was, "cool" was using lift springs. They're really not that bad. Maybe someone should try using them--they work really well, especially on a tow vehicle.

    ORD's shackle flip is designed for a stock type shackle angle to minimize the effect, but it cannot be eliminated, it's the nature of the design.
     
  16. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    He said light towing. Nobody said shackle flip on a duramax while hauling a fully loaded gooseneck to alaska. Yes the geometrry is a little different than before, and there is some extra leverage. I don't see why it would not work for light to normal trailers. It is all relative. I would not reccomend any heavy towing with a lifted vehicle. Normal towing should not be a problem. The springer suspension (now AK57) was not for towing, but the creater (marv) pulled a travel trailer from Phoenix to Moab, then to Farmington, then back Phoenix. This was with no sway bars, overloads, ect. on a rig with over 4 feet of wheel travel.
     
  17. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    I agree. You have to draw the line somewhere though, for me it's just easier to get in the other truck that is a stock 2wd, and tow with that.
     
  18. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    Your "scientific facts" are true, but you fail to see that the actual change in shackle angle per lb. of load changes drastically the stiffer the spring is. If the spring is too stiff to let the spring eye fall away from the truck to any degree, then your theory will not hold true in reality.
     
  19. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    That is true, but I don't base my life on that never happening.

    Back on topic.......

    Dick Cepek suspension is now owned by a small company in texas. All those kits are manufactured in a building about the size of my garage. Mickey Thompson sold the company last year to them, and they sell directly to the public.
     
  20. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Dick Cepek 5\" Lift?

    So if what I said is true, then why everytime a thread comes up on this topic you insist that it is a bad idea?
     

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