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diesel fuel question.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by colbystephens, Jul 6, 2005.

  1. colbystephens

    colbystephens 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    so i may have a free 50 gallon drum of diesel available to me, but it's been sitting for years. i know that diesel doesn't go bad like gas does, but i'm not too certain how well this drum is sealed and don't know how much bacteria may have grown in it. is it possible to test it for bacteria, and if there is a lot of bacteria, can it be treated? i've heared that filtering it would do the trick just fine, but i don't want to screw my fuel filters as a result. what do y'all think?

    thanks.
    colby stephens.
    for the story of my k5's build, check out www.web.pdx.edu/colbys (its a bit outdated, but i'm trying to get it back up to speed asap.)
     
  2. resurrected_jimmy

    resurrected_jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    I don't think its worth it.....if it were my truck I wouldn't take the chance
     
  3. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    Does it get cold in oregon? (stupid question, but I failed geography okay).... The drum of fuel would be of no use in VT after a winter's worth of gelling. I wouldnt risk it. Had a tank gel in the dmax, little $$ but lottsa time later, the truck was okay, but what a PIA.

    Brandy
     
  4. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    Diesel fuel does go bad when it sits. bacteria, fungus and yeast grow exponentially, and there are also elements like vanadium ( from the refining process) that plate out and seperate from the fuel, causing a lot of grief when you try to use it. - similar to what happens when gasoline sits too long.

    Do you know what the sulfur content of the fuel is? if it's 3000 ppm sulfur off road fuel, the bacteria contamination might not be that bad. If it's on road fuel with a lower sulfur content, you can be certain that something is growing in there.

    If you want to use the fuel, you can save it by going herehttp://www.bndautomotive.com
    and order their TK7 diesel fuel catalyst.

    Their forte' is reclaiming diesel fuel that's sat too long in storage tanks, and permanently stabilizing it. It also has the best biocide / fungicide going, as it remains dormant until it encounters the contaminants in the fuel, then it goes to town eradicating it. does lots of other stuff too, that your diesel will love.


    Don't waste your time with Stabil.. TK7 is to Stabil as epoxy is to elmer's glue.


    Tom
     
  5. gravdigr

    gravdigr 1/2 ton status

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    Our offroad diesel tank for the cemetery usually sits for a year between fills with no problems. We use it for our diesel backhoe and mower. Dunno if I'd trust it in a truck though.
     
  6. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    Yep, the high sulfur content in off road keeps the growth in check ..Come 2006 and the mandated ULSD fuel for both on and off road, I expect lots of diesel equipment carnage.

    Depending on the age of the truck, you could run the off road, if I'm understanding your statement about trusting it correctly. If the truck is new enough to have pollution control devices on it, then the high sulfur will poison and ruin those devices.

    Tom
     
  7. colbystephens

    colbystephens 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    thanks for the info. :) cheers.

    colby stephens
    for the story of my k5's build, check out www.web.pdx.edu/colbys
     
  8. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    tempting....

    I know a free 55 gallon drum of diesel fuel is very tempting!..but I'd be wary of it having water in it from condensation more than anything else...we ran diesel fuel from an Elgin Pelican street sweeper that was junked at the junkyard and had sat 5+ years in the forkloader,and the only thing that worried us was the fact about a gallon of water was at the bottom of the tank..we carefully siphoned it out,making sure the siphon hose did not go close to the tanks bottom to avoid sucking the water out...we left about 5 gallons in it and didn't dare use it as fuel...we used it to light the wood stove and burn barrels instead..

    I'd say you MIGHT be able to pump the barrel out into another barrel,and by using an inline filter to weed out the worst of the crud,and letting it settle at least overnight,so any water will settle to the bottom,you could pump the fuel from the top of the barrel and use it..but the risk of clogging your filters,injector pump damage,and internal damage is still possible,though not as likely as it would be if you just dumped it in and drove off...its a gamble--you have to be willing to take the loss if it does screw something up!..

    55 gallons of diesel at 2.40 cents a gallon...about 125 bucks!...not as expensive as a new injector pump--I'd use it in my home furnace before my diesel truck...its up to you to decide if its worth using as motor fuel... :crazy:
     
  9. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    If you decide to try it, filter the hell out of it (multiple filters) and throw in some TK7 or Biobor (Biobor can be found at marine supply stores). They'll kill the fuel bugs and also help with entrained water.
    FOLLOW THE "DOSAGE" INSTRUCTIONS FOR THESE ADDITIVES!!
     
  10. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Are you talking about the old fuel in question or offroad fuel period? I have a late model 2001 Dodge Cummins (my dad has an '02 Dodge Cummins also) and both of us run a fair amount of "unnamed"....fuel and have never had any issues with it messing ANYTHING up. Up until now, I had heard there was no difference between on and off road fuel, besides the color.
     
  11. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I take it the drum was completely full? If it is than that would have helped prevent water from contaminating the fuel from condensation. IIRC, from an article in "Farm Journal" the bacteria mostly live in the water, not the fuel itself, and is what causes black slime.

    Open up the drum, scoop a cup of it out, get another cup of fresh fuel in a seperate identical cup, and hold both up in the sun. If they are the same color and the fuel smells ok than I would use it. ALong with an additive like already mentioned. I would not run it strait, but just mix a few gallons of it with fresh fuel everytime you fill up. After the drum is empty I would probably consider a filter change.

    If you own a late model high pressure rail injected truck like the '03-current Dodges or any of the Dmax's than I would consider not using it period. Those trucks can't take questionable fuel like the older mechanical motors can.
     
  12. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    <<Originally Posted by 4by4bygod
    Depending on the age of the truck, you could run the off road, if I'm understanding your statement about trusting it correctly. If the truck is new enough to have pollution control devices on it, then the high sulfur will poison and ruin those devices.

    Tom>>

    <<Are you talking about the old fuel in question or offroad fuel period? I have a late model 2001 Dodge Cummins (my dad has an '02 Dodge Cummins also) and both of us run a fair amount of "unnamed"....fuel and have never had any issues with it messing ANYTHING up. Up until now, I had heard there was no difference between on and off road fuel, besides the color.>>

    Hello!

    I was referring to offroad fuel in general.

    The difference between on and off road fuel is the sulfur content. Right now, on road is about 500PPM, off road is 3,000 ppm. On road USED to be about 3,000, but the epa is working on legislating it out of existence, thus the continued lower levels.

    Sulfur does 2 things, really.. it keeps bacteria , fungus, and yeast in check, and it provides the lubricity needed by the fuel system. I'm sure you know that already, though.

    The downside of sulfur is that it creates acids as a by product of combustion., and these acids create toxic emissions, and they also poison emissions equipment.

    I should have been more specific in my statement, as I didn't know what Colby was putting his fuel into. Your Dodge's won't have the emissions equipment I'm speaking of. I was speaking of equipment like oxidation catalysts, particulate traps, urea traps, etc. these devices will be poisoned and rendered ineffective by sulfur.. similar to what lead does to cat converters on a gas engine.

    These devices are showing up in the newest vehicles and heavy trucks, and VW is tinkering with urea traps in their next gen turbodiesels. I'm guessing your dodges have EGR on them and that's it. Is that the case? EGR isn't the best because it pollutes the oil.. you get decreased oil life, and labs can't even sample it because it's so sooty.

    Anyway, the move towards pollution aftertreatment devices on trucks , buses, and heavy equipment is what's driving the change to Ultra low 15ppm sulfur diesel in 2006, and this affects both on and off road fuel. They'll get the new fuel implemented first, then mandate the devices, either as retrofits, or OEM equipment, all to comply with what's called EPA phase III.

    Thanks for the discussion.

    Tom
     
  13. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    Exactly what I was going to say- for the first 2 1/2 years of the dmax's life, we ran "offroad fuel" as we had it for our excavators etc. My understanding is that its dyed a different color - for DOT to pick it out on DOT inspection stops. Never did anything to our dmax. 1st fuel filter change was at 45K

    Brandy
     

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