Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

Do it yourself high steer- Good idea or bad?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by odoa3, Jun 1, 2005.

  1. odoa3

    odoa3 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Posts:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    I was looking at ORD's website and got to wondering what would be so hard about putting together your own highsteer. I have access to some half inch plate I think would would work for the arm. Some new ends and use the exsisting drag link and pitman arm. Am I missing some reason why this would be a bad idea? This would be going on a 8 lug D44. Any input appreciated.
     
  2. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    16,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    even the cheap arms are 1" thick plate steel.
     
  3. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Posts:
    15,680
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Location:
    642 Days to BB2018

    Here are a few possible reasons:

    1. Death - Do you really think 1/2" steel is the right choice?

    2. ScarySteering.com - You might get nominated.

    3. Geometry / Ackerman - You could waste a LOT of hours and material resolving the interferences and trying to get the turning radius you want. It's not that easy.....unless you just plan on "ripping off" an existing design that's properly engineered.

    4. Time = Money - Designing high-steer from scratch might be free, but the costs are lots and lots of your time. Personally, I'd rather just buy a well-thought out solution and spend my time (and brainpower) on K5 projects that I can't simply go out and buy high-quality solutions for.... :thinking:



    :usaflag:
     
  4. JK5

    JK5 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Posts:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Norton, Oh
    Homemade crossover/high-steer is common around here..
    many of my buds are tool makers and machinists...so dropping a peice of steel in a mill...drilling some holes is NOT something they're willing to spring for.

    They asually start with a 1 1/2" th steel...and mill it down.

    As far as the 1/2" th plate goes...
    it sounds like a good start for a winch bumper... ;)
     
  5. big jimmy 91

    big jimmy 91 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Posts:
    639
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Northwestern Ontario Canada
    It can be done. (I got the specs. from this site , $150 US. is too much for a piece of steel with 6 holes in it)
    Use at least 1" plate , take your time and do it right.
    The hardest part we had to overcome was the tie rod end taper , we ended up having to use a heim joint on one end because there is not a tre. taper reamer to be found around these parts :dunno:

    BTW I posted asking why we should not use a heim a little while ago and there was no reasons given by anyone
    So far it is holding up fine on our test runs on private property.(pushing it hard)
     
  6. Kyle89K5

    Kyle89K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    OKLAHOMA
    Frankly, I think a lot of the crossover systems on the market are extremely overpriced. That's just my personal take on it, but IMO it's like Disc Brake brackets for a 14. When I bought my setup, I dropped COIN on the TSM kit, now I can do it for a LOT less.

    My recomendation? Do some research on different companies that sell crossover. Don't just buy from the first one you see. Once you find 2 or 3 that you like, then well, start asking THEM questions about why their system is better.

    Here's what we are putting on a buddies rig

    [​IMG]

    You might call the guys at ATOR, they are a great group that wheel EXTREMELY hard everything they build. www.ator4x4.com or www.autotopicoffroad.com


    The arm is a LOT less $$ than you think. Rod ends are about $33 a piece for either end, a piece of DOM, inserts, steering box, and new pitman arm and you got crossover. It's not that pricey. Really...
     
  7. resurrected_jimmy

    resurrected_jimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 23, 2005
    Posts:
    2,241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    back home in Houston
    This will get me crusified but here goes. I just drilled out the taper on the knuckles used heim joints on both end of the tie rod and ran a long bolt through the pass side and attached my crossover arm to the top side of my passenger side knuckle.
     
  8. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Posts:
    45,026
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    check into WFO Concepts. Great products / service and bling double arms too.

    j
     
  9. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    16,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    No crucifying at the moment.

    I constantly think of deleting this picture from my website, then another topic comes up and I need post it again.

    Why the above idea won't work on a Chevy
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Kyle89K5

    Kyle89K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    OKLAHOMA
    The springs tend to get in the way. On a coil front, that's an easy way to do it. Bronco guys do it pretty regular.
     
  11. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2000
    Posts:
    13,964
    Likes Received:
    447
    Location:
    Marietta GA
    It's also common for guys running spring under, ie Jeeps. Of course we all know a heim/rod end is designed to be mounted in a double shear set-up, right? Personally, I have not seen one fail in a steering app, I still don't know if I'd use it though. :confused:
     
  12. odoa3

    odoa3 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Posts:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Thanks guys! I guess I didn't realize the arm was so thick. Will have to see if I can find some thicker steel if I go through with this. A buddy has a TRE taper reamer already so that is covered.
    Greg72 mentioned the geometry.... having never messed around with steering before I don't really know what to look for here. Would I have to change the pitman arm or could I stay with the one I have? Same with the drag link- couldn't I just use the existing one? The only change would be the 2wd stearing box... I don't understand how I would mess up the geometry. I guess I am looking for the why's of why you have to replace the pitman arm and drag link if you have to.

    Thanks again for the recommendations and ideas.
     
  13. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    16,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    your draglink is nowhere NEAR long enough. Factory 4x4 one is like what 12" long? Crossover one is a few feet long. Start looking around at Ackerman angle stuff. Its not just drill and go stuff.
     
  14. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Posts:
    15,680
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Location:
    642 Days to BB2018


    ......and watch the hours tick away and spiral down the drain.


    :crazy:
     
  15. big jimmy 91

    big jimmy 91 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Posts:
    639
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Northwestern Ontario Canada
    We used Jeep Cherokee steering parts for the one we built with a 2wd. sector shaft.
    It was all in a write up that I will try to find again , it was easy except for getting the heep pitman arm off the donor
    I thought part of the fun of building these rigs was actually building , not purchasing and bolting on. (at least for me it is :cool1: )
     
  16. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Posts:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Chelsea, MI
    That's a lot of good advice... it'll make him do a lot of research.

    However, he's probably like me and his time isn't worth a whole lot (compared to the dollar). Some people make $60/hour and can afford to pay somebody $15/hour to mow their lawn. I'd be paying twice what I make to pay somebody to mow my lawn so it doesn't make sense to pay someone else to do it.

    I don't recommend copying other people's high steer arms. Even well-engineered ones like what Sky makes have HORRIBLE ackerman angle. The turning diameter lost by using most high steer arms as compared to stock is reason enough to keep your tie rod in harm's way. But, you have limited room to work with (stinkin' tires getting in the way, pshh).

    I have Sky's arm and it seems to still be the best bang for the buck... but it's gone up a lot since I bought it. It'd cost me the same amount to have my neighbor machine me one.
     
  17. odoa3

    odoa3 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Posts:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    I have more time than money, so have to consider all the angles before throwing down the cash. Well, back to trying to figure out this whole Ackerman angle thing. Kind of wishing I would have paid attention in my math classes now.
     

Share This Page