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Doubler Question

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 84gmcjimmy, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Hey, first off I want to say, go easy on me as I know nothing about doublers 'cept they make the gears lower. So I was wondering for my blazer I'm going to build a big engine (around 800HP hopefully) for mud bogging, but if I put a doubler in there, would it make me go slower in the mud since the gears are lower? 2nd would I beable to crawl on the rocks like you guys? (not as good, but try?) because that rock crawling stuff looks fun /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Sorry for my lack of smartness /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
     
  2. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    The doubler only gives you low gears when you put it in double low. Just like a regular t-case only gives you 4WD when you pull the lever. So, it wouldn't make a difference if your using high gears.
    2. An 800hp mill will have a metric assload of torque to go along with it, so it will do fine on the rocks, although majorly overkill.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  3. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    a metric assload

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Damn... I'm Canadian and I haven't heard that unit of measure even once! /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
     
  4. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif I never thought of that. Thanks, would it be worth the investment down the road? 800HP aint overkill
     
  5. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    a metric assload

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Damn... I'm Canadian and I haven't heard that unit of measure even once! /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
     
  6. blazerpunk

    blazerpunk 1/2 ton status

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    No such thing as too much horse power. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  7. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    No such thing as too much horse power. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You got it right on the dot brotha! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  8. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    another thing you want to keep in mind, the gear ratio multiplies torque.

    400 ft/lb x 2.52(?)(1st gear TH350) = 1008 ft/lb

    when you throw the 203 range box in before the 205, you double the torque.

    400 ft/lb x 2.52 x 2.00 (NP203 low range) = 2016, about twice what was stock on a 400/205 combo. breakage could very well occur with your 800hp combo. in fact, i'd almost plan on it. why not go with a stall coverter, and run a more mild mill?
     
  9. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif I never thought of that. Thanks, would it be worth the investment down the road? 800HP aint overkill

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I hope your pockets are deep...very deep. Unless you just dump scary amounts of nitrous and fuel down the intake of a built big block, you aren't going to build 800HP for cheap. It costs roughly $10 per HP in mild applications. Most guys around here that have warmed over mild motors will probably agree with that rough figure. I spent about $3k on my 406 and am making around 300-350HP. So next you will think $8k for 800HP, sounds pretty cheap for that much power but nope. To make serious power you will need aftermarket heads, forged internal parts, big carbs, and other expensive power adders like blowers or turbos. You can figure that those ponies higher than 500HP or so will probably cost you $20-30 bucks p/HP, maybe more. Look at mudjinkie82, his blown 540 makes 1,000+HP but he has $17K in the motor, as much as I have in my whole K5. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Don't forget too that you have to feed all those horsies....You can figure on being in the gallons per mile range instead of MPG. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

    You probably already know this stuff but I also know you're a little new around here so I just want to make sure you know what things cost before you get your hopes up. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  10. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif I never thought of that. Thanks, would it be worth the investment down the road? 800HP aint overkill

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I hope your pockets are deep...very deep. Unless you just dump scary amounts of nitrous and fuel down the intake of a built big block, you aren't going to build 800HP for cheap. It costs roughly $10 per HP in mild applications. Most guys around here that have warmed over mild motors will probably agree with that rough figure. I spent about $3k on my 406 and am making around 300-350HP. So next you will think $8k for 800HP, sounds pretty cheap for that much power but nope. To make serious power you will need aftermarket heads, forged internal parts, big carbs, and other expensive power adders like blowers or turbos. You can figure that those ponies higher than 500HP or so will probably cost you $20-30 bucks p/HP, maybe more. Look at mudjinkie82, his blown 540 makes 1,000+HP but he has $17K in the motor, as much as I have in my whole K5. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Don't forget too that you have to feed all those horsies....You can figure on being in the gallons per mile range instead of MPG. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

    You probably already know this stuff but I also know you're a little new around here so I just want to make sure you know what things cost before you get your hopes up. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't care about the MPG because this would be a trail only rig. I plan on building this motor in the sequence of many years as I am still young and would be better to save save save and then getting it. I will be using all after market parts and start from scratch. I hope that it won't cost as much as mudjunkies but it probaly will /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif Thanks for the advice /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  11. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    another thing you want to keep in mind, the gear ratio multiplies torque.

    400 ft/lb x 2.52(?)(1st gear TH350) = 1008 ft/lb

    when you throw the 203 range box in before the 205, you double the torque.

    400 ft/lb x 2.52 x 2.00 (NP203 low range) = 2016, about twice what was stock on a 400/205 combo. breakage could very well occur with your 800hp combo. in fact, i'd almost plan on it. why not go with a stall coverter, and run a more mild mill?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But to get that torque I would have to switch to the double low which will only be once and a while. What is a stall converter. And when you say run a more mild mill, that do you mean /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Thanks for the advice and pointing me in a direction /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  12. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    I've heard of guys that get too much sex too, but never met one....

    There's really no substitute for gears to make a truck crawl. A high stall converter will just build a bunch of heat and not do much for your control. For what you're talking about, a Doubler is just right, you can run in 2:1 low gear in the mud so you have lots of wheel spin, then drop the 203 in low in the rocks and have a 4:1 low to be able to crawl. The versatility is great. I'd consider the motor expectations also, 800+ is a lot and could be cranky for general trail use. a milder number like 600 could be much more friendly, especially if you start with a LOT of cubes, like mid 500's. But that's whole different post.
     
  13. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I'm with Stephen on the motor, you would be better off in the rocks with less power because it will be way to cammed up to run good at idle and suck too much fuel. Rock crawling is just that "crawling" and big cammed high HP motors are very jumpy with fast throttle response in my experience. In the mud it would work great because you just put the little pedal to the floor and let 'er rip. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
    Question: Have you ever driven/riden in a vehicle with a lot of power? A truck with 500HP is a LOT of power and I doubt you would ever feel like you are lacking on skinny pedal unless you run 44's and traverse some DEEP holes. 800HP would be fun though. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  14. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    a milder number like 600

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
     
  15. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    No I have not been in a truck with that much power, but I can imagine it sort of. It's mostly going to be for mud, but I will try to get the HP's down a bit for the rocks. I will be running 44" Boggers
     
  16. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    a milder number like 600

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is a bit ridiculous when you stop away for a minute.
     
  17. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Stephen is right, if you step back and think about 600HP is a LOT! I have about 350HP right now and I have never really ran out of power pulling or mud bogging. I would imagine a 450-500HP BBC would be plenty of power and can be made with basically stock heads and a cam that isn't to radical for brakes and crawling. THat would also help keep the cost down. Also, I don't know about you guys but with the price of fuel these days, trail only rig or not, (you fill it up before each outing right?) that can get expensive fast. Say if a guy burned 20 gallons in one outing with an 800HP motor that would probably require AT LEAST 91 octane AND octane booster or race gas. That wouldn't be cheap. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I bet a guy could build a 454 or 496 and make 475HP with a pump friendly comp. ratio and maybe use only 15 gallons on that same outing. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  18. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Yes, it would be alot of money still, but I don't go fourwheeling alot. Just when I can so it wouldn't cost very much. I may lower it down in the HP range, but i am still deciding. Thanks for the help /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  19. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I bet a guy could build a 454 or 496 and make 475HP with a pump friendly comp. ratio and maybe use only 15 gallons on that same outing. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My 468 indicates that this is very possible.
     

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