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Drive Flanges

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by CyberSniper, Apr 12, 2006.

  1. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    So, I've had half ton front axles apart around a bazillion times. I've had a couple 60s apart.

    All of them, whether automatic hubs, manual hubs, or drive flanges had a snapring to keep the stub shaft pulled into the spindle. The only manufacturer of drive flanges that appears to do this is Warn.
    http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-35Spline/index5.html

    If the slug is allowed to move around in the hub and/or the shaft is allowed to move around in the slug then what locates that axleshaft? If the stub is allowed to go in and out of the spindle you end up with mud in your spindle bearings and eventually into your wheelbearings. Wheelbearings and spindle bearings are cheap on half ton stuff (like $40/side) but D60 stuff isn't so cheap. If the inner shaft ends up being on the short side (like many aftermarket ones are) then that shaft can move around enough to eat spindles also. If something doesn't keep the centerline of the joint in line with the kingpin inclination axis then steering can be a chore as well.


    Am I crazy or is this a severe overlooking by most of the drive flange manufacturers?
     
  2. neverendingproject

    neverendingproject 1/2 ton status

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    I dont think its that big a deal, because when the shaft is spinning, it keeps itself in the spindle because of the axis of the knuckle and available movement of the shaft. In essence when the shafts are spinning, if they moved back they would snap. I personally have never seen an eaten shaft because it traveled back, or an eaten spindle. But it could happen. Im not saying this is how it is, this is just the logic that I see.
     
  3. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    Wow, that is a good question. I just had the hubs apart on my DD 10 bolt today to adjust the wheel bearings. I am planning to do the 35 spline upgrade on my D60 along with lockouts and flanges. I drive it on the street and figured I would run the lockouts for that and just swap the flanges on when going wheeling since it is only a 10 minute job. The snap ring only does one thing that I can see and that is keeping the shaft from going in. How far in the shaft can actually go is the question. It will either bottom out in the carrier or the u joint flange will hit the housing. I really would not want it rubbing the housing.
     
  4. willyswanter

    willyswanter 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    All drive flanges I've ever worked with have had snap rings on the shaft. I've messed with Poly's, Warn's, my Mt. Logans, etc.
     
  5. NorthWestFab

    NorthWestFab 1/2 ton status

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    The drive flange is pulled tight against the large spiral/snap ring on the hub body by the 4 retaining bolts on the cap, it is not floating inside the hub. The stub shaft itself is fixed to the flange via external snap ring. These are designed to keep any movment to a minimum.

    Any movment you would find is a flange on the stub shaft would be the same as any stock hub assy.

    I have seen some vendors/manufactuers that do have a floating type flange- we are not one of them.

    -Kyle
    NWF.
     
  6. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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  7. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Yeah, kind of, check out their thread on Pirate. I asked them the same questions yesterday.

    If you were to dig around, you'd see I've asked almost everyone the thickness of their slugs. I think everyone except Poly is 1". An inch really isn't enough spline engagement for the shaft but people do it anyway.

    It's not just them either, just about everybody lacks a way to solidly hold the stub into the spindle. They were just my target since I know the new ATOR people are usually pretty responsive. I've never seen a full NWF kit and they aren't on their website.

    I'm looking at buying a lot of stuff real soon (two sets of drive flanges, two sets of steering arms [one double ended], et cetera) and am looking at different places to buy stuff and trying to get the best product for the dollar spent without ending up with any regret.

    I'd really like to buy all my stuff from one place but prices and features kind of dictates that I don't.
     
  8. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    If it makes you feel any better the factory drive flanges are only about an inch thick. You have to remember that the stub axle is supported in the rear by the spindle bearing and so having an inch thick slug is fine but there needs to be a snap ring to keep tension against the seal to keep water and dirt out.
     
  9. 85mudblazin

    85mudblazin 1/2 ton status

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    Mine from NWF have the snap ring. I havent seen a kit that doesnt have one.
     
  10. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Yeah, but 35 spline shafts are 1.5" thick and a lot stronger than the soft iron of a factory shaft. Generally, you need no less than the same contact area as diameter to keep the cut splines from distorting/wearing and the splines on the shaft from twisting.

    While most of the slugs are only an inch thick (some are up to 1.5", a couple are 1.25") you can put spacers in like Warn does so you can reach the snap ring groove in the stub.
     
  11. koldsimer

    koldsimer 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    It may be supported but nothing is keeping tension on the axleshafts unless you use your stub clips properly. I had to make some spacers out of tubing after installing my yukon 4340 35 spline stuff. Better seal now and no noise from yokes grinding on the axletubes!
     
  12. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    This is what the factory springs are for.
     
  13. koldsimer

    koldsimer 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Where did you get your springs?
     
  14. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I'm not running drive slugs, but the springs are factory in any axle that had drive slugs.

    Here is a pic of everything except the cup washer and snap ring.

    These happen to be for a D44 but the same spring is used.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. koldsimer

    koldsimer 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Damnit! I wish I had known to find these springs before I started making spacers and all! Oh well, I just figured that since they didn't come stock or with my 62672 warn lockouts that they were not needed. Boy was I wrong...
     
  16. k5 krawler 50

    k5 krawler 50 1/2 ton status

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    would you think some place like napa would carry the spring or does any one know where you might be able to buy the spring? Thanks.
     
  17. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    x2... and forget about all this 1/2, 3/4 ton poop... we need 60 parts. :grin: My new ATOR flanges don't have a spring. I'm not 100% sure how much movement is possible in there... but I guess it never hurt to have the slugs be factory-like with a spring. :)

    j
     
  18. koldsimer

    koldsimer 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Your pucks are tapped right? If so, you dont need the spring.
     
  19. NorthWestFab

    NorthWestFab 1/2 ton status

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    Should be right here: http://www.northwestfab.com/axleshafts.html

    [​IMG]

    We also have a sale for the month of april, Drive flange KITS (2 Stubs, @ 5-806X Joints, 2 Drive Flanges) for $349.00

    I have not had a single one of our flanges fail - but I will leave the decision up to you.

    The Factory type slugs have a spring because there is no bolts to draw the slug to the cap, if the slug 'floats' it should have a spring.

    -Kyle
    NWF.
     
  20. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Well, by "full kit" I mean a picture of everything that came in the kit.

    Some companies use a snapring to hold the slug to the shaft and then bolt the cap to the slug. This essentially pulls the shaft in until either the bolt holes are bottomed out or the stub is pulled all the way in.

    Some companies use a snap ring to hold a retainer plate in. The cap is then bolted to the retainer plate. These companies often don't address the stub floating around problem. It's usually a nonissue for most people because the center pin in the carrier keeps the shaft from going too far and they don't do mud. The slug keeps the shaft from eating the spindle. However, as soon as you remove the slug on many of these (say, you broke a shaft) the stub will eat the spindle because there is absolutely nothing keeping the shaft from grinding away at the spindle. So, while you CAN pull out the slug and put the cap back on, it's a REALLY bad idea to run it that way. At least with the snapring holding the stub in the spindle the shaft can't walk out onto the reduced diameter compared to the bearing surface.


    That's a pretty good deal on a 35 spline upgrade kit. How much do you want to sell just two sets of flanges?
     

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