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DUAL MANUAL TRANNYS??.....CRAZY?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BLUESMAN, Oct 22, 2002.

  1. BLUESMAN

    BLUESMAN 1/2 ton status

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    Ok I have alot of time to think at work,so I've been thinking of how to get more crawling ratio.I've thought of the dual T cases(3.92:1 CR),and an NP241 T-case with an 4:1 lo range(4.0:1 CR).But I was thinking of somehow installing another SM465 trans behind my SM465 trans.Is this an crazy and not feasable thought?I went thru the calculations and came up with a final CR of 345:1 CR,184:1,176:1,118:1.What about it?Possible??Or just plain crazy /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifthanks Mike!!! /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  2. marv_springer

    marv_springer 1/2 ton status

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    Russ (BadDog) and I have talked about this so much..... but I don't think either one of us has done anything about it! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    Russ, wasn't someone else puttin' this together?!??

    Marv
     
  3. BLUESMAN

    BLUESMAN 1/2 ton status

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    Damn Marv...it took you 4 minutes to give me that answer? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifAm I crazy??? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
     
  4. fortcollinsram

    fortcollinsram 1/2 ton status

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    Anything is possible...I think a crawl ratio that low isn't practical...I think it just too low...getting power from one tranny to another would be easy. just use a sleeve similar to the one on a 465/205 combo...You would probably need a custom input shaft that is shorter and you will need a custom adapter too...You could run like 2.73 gears though to spin low rpms on the interstate...


    Chris
     
  5. BLUESMAN

    BLUESMAN 1/2 ton status

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    Totally agree on the 345:1 ratio,can't imagine all the exploded parts! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gifBut the 184,118:1 ratios really got me thinking.Why the higher diff gears?All the torque would be coming from the first trans,right?Leaving the second trans in neutral?I'm running 4.10's right now with 38" tires and like it.Thinking the only real option would be the gear driven 205 T case.
     
  6. heavy4x4

    heavy4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Sounds like a cool idea, but to have two clutch pedals (I'm assuming that's how you'd have/want to set it up) would be rather interesting to drive.
     
  7. BLUESMAN

    BLUESMAN 1/2 ton status

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    I don't think you'd need two clutches,the second trans would be left in gear(third gear?) and only shift it when you are fully stopped.
     
  8. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> The clutch would work for both of them, it would disco the both from the engine. Someone on ORC posted a pic of a truck that had like 3 trannys and 3 t-cases in it, had a crawl ratio in the 4000:1 range if I recall. Quite ridiculous, I'll see if I can find the pics...
    </font color>
     
  9. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> Here they are -

    The description of the truck - (even with 3.55 diff gears, the combo would be 4250:1)

    CRAZY ranger with some unbelievable drievline:
    Triton V8 mounted in the middle of the truck, followed by some AOD tranny, then a NP205 right behind the rear bumper mounted directly to the auto tranny to send the power up towards the front of the truck, after that NP205 lie TWO NP435 low gear trannier married together followed by yet another NP205 married to the last NP435 to feed a D70 rear and a solidified F250 front end. The guy says it takes 3.5minutes for one revolution of a tire in his lowest gears. Inside the cab was 1 floor mounted shifter for the auto, and then SEVEN unlabeled sticks popping outta a hole in the floor for the rest of the driveline.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    </font color>
     
  10. BLUESMAN

    BLUESMAN 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks Shaggy!That's just a tad extreme!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gifBut I guess them Fords need all the help they can get!Back to the subject.Two SM465's and one 205.Mike
     
  11. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> Sorry for the hijack... Anyways, back on topic, I think it's a perfectly doable plan, you'd just need an adaptor and a drive sleeve to go from one tranny to the other. Might be a machining nightmare, but certainly possible. It would be an ideal crawling setup, heavier and longer than a doubler, but a great selection of gears! You could run some real tall gears in the axles to keep the gear strength up and just run the second tranny in 3rd in town, drop it down to 4th on the freeway and cruise along at 2000 rpm. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif</font color>
     
  12. morphed86k10

    morphed86k10 1/2 ton status

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    WTF would you want that for? It's WAY too slow to actually be useful, and that "little" truck probably weighs more than my K30.

    On a different note, I'd set it up so you only have one clutch (which would have to be the front one). You just have to stop to and put the front one in neutral to shift the rear, just like going from high to low in a transfer case. It'd be hell on the rear tranny since its getting a lot of torque from the front one, but otherwise you'd need two clutches which just isn't worth the hassle or driveline length.

    I don't know what good it'd do though.

    70:1 in my old truck was pretty adequate. 20:1 in my K30 blows going downhill, but its got enough power it really doesn't matter going uphill. It'll roast three tires (4 when the lock right goes in front) if you get belligerent with the right pedal on hillclimbs.
     
  13. BLUESMAN

    BLUESMAN 1/2 ton status

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    I'm not following the tall diff gears....would'nt the final drive ratio be 1:1 coming out of the second trans(if it was in third gear)?I was thinking that the second trans would be left in third for all around driving and 1st and second gear for crawling.Lo=range would be too lo to actually use(345:1).Mike
     
  14. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> Sorry, I think of the 465 as a 4 speed, so what you're calling 2nd, I'm calling 3rd, it appears. If you left the rear tranny in what you're calling 2nd around town, it would act like it had lower gears than it would seem like if you had only a single tranny, due to the torque multiplication of the second tranny. Use 3rd (what I was calling 4th) on the freeway, and 1st and low off road.

    Morphed, I agree, that truck is way overkill, completely useless, but still a good example of what can be done if you have the time and inclination to do it. That was my only purpose in even mentioning it, just as a curiosity.</font color>
     
  15. chulisohombre

    chulisohombre 1/2 ton status

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    the final ratio would still be 1 to one with that setup.so the same gear ratio would apply to what tire size you are running.looks like a good plan and id like to see this actually happen.would be a pretty kewl setup.driveshaft length and angles would be a problem in a blazer i think. also crossmembers would have to be made specific to the setup.with a doubler dont you have to change the driveshafts and crossmembers to get it to work also?looks like a lot of custom work would have to be done.
     
  16. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Yeah, I've thought about it and talked to Marv, mj, and a few others about the realities of doing such a setup. My interest is in building a TH400/SM465/NP205. I just don't have the time and $$$ to do anything about it right now. And as an added barrier, my friend who is a master machinest and had offered to build the adapter plates along with building/resplining/heat-treat the various shafts required lost his job about a month ago. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif You might talk to mj, I think he has poked a bit (maybe more?) at starting a 465/465 project. I know he started, then put it on a back burner, but I have not heard how much he had done.
     
  17. BLUESMAN

    BLUESMAN 1/2 ton status

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    Russ,So the machining would require an adapter from the first trans to the second.My father in law knows enough people to acclompish that part.Would the driveshafts,esp. the rear be that much of an issue in an K/5?Thinking that the whole combo would add about 12-16" to the overall length.So do you think this is feasable?I'll PM MJ and see what the issues where with his idea.Thanks Mike
     
  18. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Ideally, with custom shafts, and a minimal adapter on both sides of the "extra" 465, it wouldn't be all that much longer than a doubler.

    I don't think the shafts would be an issue. In summary, my personal desire was to use the short 32 spline TH400 output attached to a short (custom) 32 spline 465 input using a coupler sleeve. I also thought it might be good to replace the bearing and retainer for a larger diameter to make a 32 spline female input like the 400 205 uses. My bud was going to make the shafts and the plates machined to bolt to each side, and I was going to tie them together and add a mount. Similarly, he was going to make the plates for the 465/205 side. I was going to use a 2WD 465 with the short 32(?) spline output left after removing the yoke going into the 400 205. I'm not at all sure of the details on that shaft mating since I have nothing to look at. Wasn't much worry anyway since my bud could make an output shaft to mate to the 205s 32 spline female input.
     
  19. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    GEEZ 3 trannys and 3 tcases WOW I bet you could break stuff eazy and btw what would that ultimate low gear actually do for you dont you guys thats too low? what does the lowest gear come out to mph wise like 1MPH?
     
  20. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    There were folks building dual-tranny swamp buggies down in Florida many years ago. They would put 6-foot-tall tractor tires on custom wheels that would bolt up to whatever axles they had laying around and then use the dual trannies to slow it down enough to be useful in the swamps. So it can be done. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif But it sure seems that the rear driveshaft will end up being pretty short on a K5.
     

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