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Dual transfer case doubler...

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by rjfguitar, Sep 2, 2003.

  1. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Is the slip yoke on a 208 t-case and late model 205 the same or different spline/size?.... Thinking about ORD's gen.2 doubler. It is only a couple inches longer than a 208 and would slide my slip yoke back to a "stock" location on my t-case output shaft and would get away with only doing front driveshaft mods. What have you guys done behind a TH700 with the doubler? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    85K5 3/4 ton,14boltFF,10bolt, 9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14 welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  2. dhdescender

    dhdescender 1/2 ton status

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    I'd say if your willing to drop that kind of dough on a doubler, & 32spline cases, I would say mod'ding to a fixed yoke while your at it is VERY worthwhile.

    Yeah, I know it's not the info your looking for, but do you want to install the fixed yoke later? Do you really want to drop that T case AGAIN just fo the yoke?
     
  3. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I don't really see the problem with a slip yoke that is slid all the way on, they are pretty strong but bad if you have to remove the rear driveshaft. I don't plan on removing it for any reason because I don't do a ton of offroading all the time. I do have some serious HP but I am only running 35's, I don't think I will run into much breakage problems. How much does it generally cost to go to a doubler when all finished?
     
  4. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    If you don't do serious offroading very often:

    1. You do not need nor can I understand why you'd want a doubler

    2. You did not need nor do I understand why you'd want Boggers on your truck
     
  5. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    1. I get into offhighway positions were I would have liked some more gears. I have to pull farm equipment out on my ranch all the time and 4 to 1 would be very nice for those bad situations( have to see the situations to understand sometimes)
    2. I like boggers because they provide great traction, have a good size ( nice and wide but not too tall) that I like and look very agressive, combined with my deep welds I get lots of oohs' and ahs'. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif They ride good for their nature and I like that sound they make when your slowing down. I think lifted trucks with street tires look funny. SSr's would probably be a better choice but I love the way boggers look.
    They throw on HELL of a rooster tail in the mud and sand. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Check out my photo folder in the member gallery and tell me what you guys think.

    Tim, if you have a problem with me driving around with welds and boggers because I like how they look than Thats too bad. It's my money and my truck. I know you don't like showy trucks.. thats fine...I do. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    85K5 3/4 ton,14boltFF,10bolt, 9"lift,35"boggers,16.5x14 welds, big horse 406SBC/700R4 /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
     
  6. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> Just to make it easy... I didn't see anything with rooster tails.

    [​IMG]

    Personally I think it looks goofy as hell when the tread is narrower than the rim, but if everyone did the same thing then life would be boring. There are TONS of reasons to run a narrower rim with as much backspacing as possible, the only reason to run a too-wide rim with very little backspace is for looks (unless you have an 8 lug front and want to run 15s without grinding, but you have 16.5s so there ya go). Your tire and rim choice was driven pretty much 100% on what they looked like, which is just fine and dandy if that's what you're into. I'm not bashing or anything here, just giving an opinion, I'll say again that variety is the spice of life and that trucks would be awful boring if they all looked the same.

    Case in point (shameless use of an opportunity to post pics of my junk /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) - Here's my truck, I think it looks great but you probably think it's ugly as sin. 42x15s on 8.25" wide wheels with lots of backspace so they only stick out a couple of inches, all on about 7" of lift with hogged out fenders. Different strokes for different folks. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [​IMG] </font>
     
  7. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Thanks for the pic, I'm not to slick with a computer /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I appreciate your opinion( honestly). The tread width is the same as the rim width(14") they are almost flat from top to bottom, You can really tell on the tire/wheel only pics. I did choose this combo for looks but not 100% about 75%. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I wanted a maximum traction tire with plenty of rubber on the ground, part of the reason I stretched them out on a wide rim. I do get nervous about popping a bead in the sand but I have watched a buddy of mine spin donuts and yank on the wheel at pismo with the same tire just with 16.5x12's with about 6psi. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  8. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I like your truck Evan, It looks cool on 42's... yes I would probably go 12" superlift if Driven on the street a lot but thats expensive and much cheaper to get the sawzaw out and works just as well. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I would build something like yours if I did more trail stuff and had another DD. I like the truck( honest) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  9. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I do get nervous about popping a bead in the sand but I have watched a buddy of mine spin donuts and yank on the wheel at pismo with the same tire just with 16.5x12's with about 6psi. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    <font color="green"> And a freind of mine blew a bead at Pismo with 36x12.5s on 15x10" rims with 10psi in them while she was going down a dune, and this was the result... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [​IMG]

    So it can happen, but generally the weight of the truck has to be on the tire to blow it unless you're running stupid low pressure. The right rear blew when it landed, BTW, the front right is what caused the roll. She got a little crooked and even though she was going really slow the tire blew, the rim edge dug in and over she went.</font>
     
  10. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    For real world wheeling, 42's and 7" of lift is sweet! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Once you start doing tippy stuff, the less lift you got the better. More lift does not do much for driveability, probably makes for more wind resistance going down the road. I noticed a huge difference when I took off my 3" body lift, a lot more stable off road, not any difference on road that I can tell. I have 35's and 4" of lift, love it!

    Some people just like the tall truck look, which is cool /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif , I like as low as possible for wheeling though.
     
  11. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    As for the doubler set-up, I believe your only option with ORD gen II is a 203/205 set-up. It sounds like you are talking about using your 208? I don't think that will work or would hold up to the extra abuse, but I don't know for sure. I know ORD doesn't even make a kit for the 27 spline TH350 203/205 set-up becuase that is not strong enough in their opinion.
     
  12. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    What gear have you got in your axles? You insist on keeping that OD tranny, great, take advantage of it. With 35s, I'd run 4.56 gears minimum, if not 4.88s or lower and take advantage of that low 1st gear and the 2.61:1 low range and that's pretty crawly for an auto trans rig. It just doesn't get much better than that with an auto trans.

    Don't turn this into another auto vs. manual arguement. I I didn't mean that at all. I'm simply saying, you've got a 30% higher geared 4th gear then I've got or anyone with a TH 350, 400, or 4 speed has. USE IT to your advantage and you won't need a doubler.
     
  13. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I know ORD doesn't even make a kit for the 27 spline TH350 203/205 set-up becuase that is not strong enough in their opinion.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not anymore, but they DID.
     
  14. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    I know they once did, I wish they would again.

    Here is a quote from Stephen himself when I asked about the 27 spline Gen I strength and why it was disco'd:
    [ QUOTE ]
    We did have a couple of snapped Doubler shafts and a couple of snapped input gears, so they are definitely not bulletproof. I have no doubt they were used hard when they broke, but regardless, they broke.
    We've considered bringing the Gen1 kit(s) back but for the customer's sake, I'm still not sure it's that good of a deal. Upgrading the 205 is usually about a $250 deal and when you're done, your DONE, there is nothing to worry about in the transfer case. At current prices, you'll have $940 into the Doubler kit and input conversion and if you add roughly $60 for the machine work, you're right around $1000 total. Just using the old price for the SM465 GEN1, $680, you would save $320.00 and the labor to take your 205 apart. Is it worth it? I guess that's up to the individual customer, but for me spending $300 to know that it's DONE is worth it.

    I also find it a lot easier to sell a customer a part, (especially for the transfer case which I believe should be totally reliable) that I know will be 100% as good as it can be. No exlaining that the 27 spline kit should be strong enough if they're only running 37's and will work fine with 40's if they're careful to never run the 205 in high when the 203 is in low, and you probably can't load the 205 enough with a D44 to break it but with a D60, you should be thinking about the stronger kit and no you can't just upgrade from one kit to the other because all the parts are different, etc, etc, etc. I don't have to judge how hard a guy is on parts from a phone conversation, with the GEN2, I'm just about 100% guaranteed he can't break it.

    There were some extra costs for most customers, like buying TH350/205 adapters, swapping input gears (anyway) and dealing with extra length. A few have had to buy factory adapters a 2nd time if they break the original one, and that's not cheap anymore.

    On the other hand, choices are good, and the older style kits would be a bit cheaper than the Gen2 kit if you already have a TH350 version 205 or SM465 version 205. The 465/205 adapters aren't that rare yet so if you need one it's not that hard to find, or if you break one. And some guys do have long vehicles that will never be short.
    We'll see what happens.

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  15. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What gear have you got in your axles? You insist on keeping that OD tranny, great, take advantage of it. With 35s, I'd run 4.56 gears minimum, if not 4.88s or lower and take advantage of that low 1st gear and the 2.61:1 low range and that's pretty crawly for an auto trans rig.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I've got 4.10's, I looked for a set of 3/4 or1ton with factory4.56 but never found them and my current stuff popped up for the right price. I want 4.56's but have a hard time spending around$1200 just for a gear change. It still is pretty low with the tranny in first but would like a little lower. The thing I like about the doubler is I can have a super low gear for pulling stuff and manuvering around tight spots nice and slow and having just 2.1 if I want it for say mud, truck pulls, and pulling my service trailer around in the field( its heavy as hell and would be nice to be able to run in and out of 2HI and 2Low in the field and not have to lock/unlock the hubs all the time ) I guess I would be fine just sticking it in 4low and leaving the hubs unlocked when I don't need the traction, like I do now, but the doubler would be nice with all those gearing options. I guess I don't need it though. I love overdrive with the 4.10's because I get decent mileage on the freeway( relax Tim, I run stockers on the freeway to Pismo)I would like to learn how to do gears but don't have the tools nor the time but If I did I would be slapping in 4.56's /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  16. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I believe your only option with ORD gen II is a 203/205 set-up. It sounds like you are talking about using your 208?

    [/ QUOTE ] No way, I wouldn't use a 208 I meant that my 700/208 is only like 3 inches shorter than the 700/doubler and I was thinking that if I used a slip yoke 205, if the slips are the same, I wouldn't have to modify my rear shaft because it would slid all the way back on, my 6" lift pulled it way out.
     
  17. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    gotch /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  18. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    You're missing my point. Even if you had 4.88s, it's like having 3.42s to us guys without overdrive. Going to 4.56 isn't enough. I'd go even lower than that.

    The two grand you're going to spend on a doubler buys a lot of gas. You can even swap your diff gears and still have tons of cash left over for gas.

    Even with 5.13s, you're only turning about 2300 RPM @ 65 with 35s. Going from 4.10s to 5.13s would make your 2.61:1 low range feel like a 3.25:1 and cost half what a doubler would. Not to mention that it'd help your 700 cool better and live longer.
     
  19. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You're missing my point. Even if you had 4.88s, it's like having 3.42s to us guys without overdrive. Going to 4.56 isn't enough.

    [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, But I have an expensive 700 for a reason, better gas mileage.If I went with 5.13's my gas mileage wouldn't be any better than having a 3spd auto and 3.42's. And I would have to run in OD all the time, even in town just to match that, and that is one thing that will tear up a 700. and 2300 rpms at 65mph IN OD is a lot as far as gas mileage is concerned. Yeah I would have a lower crawl but les top end. Dont forget guys this is my DD.but if it takes 2,000 than forget it. I breifly looked at the doubler page and noticed the adapter for 740,w/o t-cases. I could find a 203 and 205 pretty easy and cheap. There is a truck only bone yard down the street. What I find appealing about the doubler is I would have a low range were It would feel like I have say 5.89's or something and still be able to shift into another gear were it is low but faster for say mud, plus I would still be able to keep a good road gear so I can run at about 1700rpm's @ 65mph. Now thats versatility! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Well I think you're quite confused. Vacuum has a lot to do with fuel mileage, and you've got your foot in it a lot more to get your truck to cruise at 1700 RPM instead of 2300.

    2300 is about as perfect of a cruise RPM as you could possibly ask for. With 9" of lift, your truck is pushing a lot of air. 1700 is simply not enough RPM to push a truck down the road without a little bit of throttle.

    I had 4.10s, 35s, and 4" of lift. My truck was definitely under-geared with that setup, and most people would agree here.

    Running in OD is not what tears transmissions up. That's what backwoods farmer idiots thought from back in the day. I can just hear my friend's dad talking now, "Don't be running that thing in overdrive around town, you'll tear up that transmission QUICKLY!" There is absolutely nothing wrong with 4th gear, it's the clutch that shifts you into 4th that acts up when your truck plays the gear hunting game...which isn't going to happen when you've got 5.13 gears in the back.

    I think it's a pretty much undisputable fact that lower gears take a LOT of stress off the tranmission reguardless of what gear you drive around in.

    I certainly hope your lockup TC is hooked up and working pretty well. Considering it's on a vacuum switch, it's very possible that just to cruise down the highway, you're into the throttle enough that the TCC may be locking and unlocking. At 1700, you're just barely over the stall speed of the converter. No tranny is going to take that kind of heat for any period of time.

    Just keep in mind that you might get BETTER mileage with lower gears. You're under-geared for an overdrive truck right now.
     

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