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echobit shackle flip (questions)

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by amm888, Aug 11, 2002.

  1. amm888

    amm888 1/2 ton status

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    the echobit shackle flip description says it'll add about 4.5-6" of lift, and it's a relatively simple bolt-on procedure.

    i've been dying to get rid of my 6" rear blocks, is this shackle flip a good way to go? are there any drawbacks?

    thanks fo da help,
    alex
     
  2. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    It's a great way to go for off roading. Changing the angle the shackle works on drasticlly lowers the effective spring rate. With the flip the shackle wants to lean out on it's own. In the tension posision as the Shackle leans out if resists the spring flexing. Where it becomes a problem is heavy loads and towing. Towing esspecially. I about flipped my truck towing. Trailer started fish tailing and was transfering weight to the rear of the truck violently. Well the working spring rate was slo low that I wass going from full compression to full extension as the trailer was bucking. The shocks we for a standard set up and were too soft for the flip.
    If your not planning on Towing go for it. Just think about Rancho 9000's or 5000's to get a firmer shock.
    My experiance is the flip nets about 3.5 inches. I put 4 inch springs on the front of my truck and did what should equate to a 4 inch shackle flip. Wellll.....it works out less than that because the springs have a little sag the shackle is no longer fightint compression. I ended up running a 1 inch Zero rate and two the Over loads (the big fat leaf on the bottom I added a second upside down. That got me to 4.5 inches. I tow so I also ended up throwing in a couple extra leafs and that got me a total of 6 inches over stock. It rides and handles great on the street like that. My wheel travel off road suffered but it had to be done to make the truck safe for towing. With Lockers in both ends Traction is not an issue.
     
  3. amm888

    amm888 1/2 ton status

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    i don't see myslef towing anything soon and i've got rancho 9000s. but if i've got a 6" lift in the front and the shackle flip only gives you about 3.5" wont my back-end end up quite a bit lower than my front once i ditch the blocks?

    and are 6" blocks that bad? (as opposed to the shackle flip instead)
     
  4. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    What Grim-Reaper is referring to is the cut through the bottom shackle flip or ORD shackle flip. It rotates the 4" shackle so the rear of the spring is relocated 8" down, which would net 4" of lift at the axle since the front mount is not moved. This assumes that your stock springs have not sagged over time (which most have) hence the 3.5" of lift as stated above. This was the original aproach I took and the back sat very low, so I created my shackle bracket to effectively make up the difference by dropping the shackle mount an additional 3.5", which equates to 1.75" more at the axle over the 4" the flip created. My flip with new springs will give you 5 3/4" of mathmatical lift, but your saggy springs will deduct from this however much your sagging from stock. Way's to make up the difference would be a slightly longer shackle (i wouldn't go over a 6" long shackle), degree shims for driveline correction after the flip can raise you another 1/4", add a leafs can help bring the lift up a little as well. If your going the longer shackle route, just grab a set of 57" Ford springs with my brackets, run the brackets backward and you can easily net 6" of lift and take advantage of some great flex. Towing with just the shackle flip and stock springs isn't too bad with light loads but the 57" springs are not to be towed with at all.
     
  5. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    6 inch block is scarry! BIG time axle wrap. I would rather do the flip and then use a 2 inch block to get it even. That or get a 2 inch lift spring and do a 4 inch flip. The 70's springs are some pretty stiff boogers. I run a set of 86 springs on my 75. BIG difference in ride. Even with 2 extra leafs in the pack my truck has a softer ride than my wifes bone stock 79.
    If those blocks have been on for a while there is a good change the springs may have been axle wrped to the point of having a wave in them. Set of spring might be the way to go.
    The flip is only moving one end of the spring. The axle is pretty well center of the spring. So to do a 6 inch shackle flip the rear spring eye would have to move down 12 inchs.
     
  6. amm888

    amm888 1/2 ton status

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    i think i'm following the two of you... Borrego says his flip will give me almost 6" (minus my sag) and Grim is saying my leafs may be warped (or wraped?) and so i may need to replace them...?

    how can i tell if my leafs are warped?
     
  7. WakeBoard&4X4er

    WakeBoard&4X4er 1/2 ton status

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    ok, with your lift and a Stock shaft non/CV for a 91 with 350/350/241slip/10b would one want to put shims on the rear? of so would they when the yoke to be flatter? or inline with the drive shaft? I have put your lift on the rear of my truck with t/c up, and 2 drg shims making the drive shaft inline with the rear yoke, now i have some vib and 25-30. should i make the rear yoke flat (turn the shims around) or take them out?

    thanks
     
  8. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    I installed a set of BorregoK5 flip brackets and I am very happy with them. I had previously done the "poor man's flip" with new (stock) springs which left me with "saggy butt". The BorregoK5 brackets net more lift- which was exactly what I needed.
     
  9. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    Yes, you will need to shim the pinion down flat. If you have a th350/205tc you will need a 2-3 degree shim, 3-4 degree on a th350/203tc. This will place the yolk center line slightly lower than parallel with the output shaft center line. Axle wrap will pull the pinion nose up to parallel. Your local 4x4 or suspension shop should carry the shims from $11 to $20 a pair. The better steel shims are harder to find.

    Hows the ride compared to before other than the pinion angle vibes and the higher center of gravity. Any troubles installing them?
     
  10. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    Thats exactly how I felt, took the same initial aproach. Have you had a chance to stuff a wheel yet?
     
  11. WakeBoard&4X4er

    WakeBoard&4X4er 1/2 ton status

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    they when on EASY. well the the flip kit did. I was hard to get the spring past the hanger and my break line is to short now, and the rear shocks are to short and the truck is to big for its house. other then that is is fine /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
     
  12. WakeBoard&4X4er

    WakeBoard&4X4er 1/2 ton status

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    i will turn the shims around.
     
  13. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    Mine wont fit in the garage anymore either, even on flats /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  14. WakeBoard&4X4er

    WakeBoard&4X4er 1/2 ton status

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    ok took the shims and turnd them around, now it Vibs at 15-20 not 35-45. if it vibs at a lower speed does that mean i am closer? Next i am going to drop the t-case. i was told there was some links that have to be changed on the case. an you know about this?

    If the Vib is there after i lower the t-c then i will take the shimms out (2d) and try (4d)
     
  15. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    Did turning them around lower the nose of the pinion or raise it? The larger side of the wedge should be toward the front. Sounds like you need at least a 4 degree to get the pinion nose to point just below parallel.
     
  16. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    Mike,
    We got pretty flexed out on the Attica run. At one point, I was forced to "drag" one flip bracket across and down a boulder....I'm glad they are well built and I tack welded them in place! I still haven't got all the pics back yet.

    My rig will fit in my garage if I put the "skinnys" (31s) on and air them down almost flat!
     
  17. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    I'd like to see some of your pics when you get them, sounds like it was a fun run.

    I dropped my 57's on a 4 foot retaining wall and had to drag them all the way down and off the shackles... kind of like reverse skiing! Dropping the front end off was the sketchy part, landing on the 57's at the end of the descent was more of a relief. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
     
  18. WakeBoard&4X4er

    WakeBoard&4X4er 1/2 ton status

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    ok, this is what i did,
    i put a 2 deg shim in the rear, and put the tall facing the front not the back (sorry), and droped the t-case. no vib easy to notice!!!

    Stock rear springs, stock shaft, Stock 241, 2 deg shim (thick side at tcase), lowered tcase

    THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!!!
    i had better check 4wd works!!

    brett

    Sorry i should have prof read this yesterday.
     
  19. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    Sounds like the shims are installed reversed, and should make the pinion nose point higher than the shackle flip did. You might be able to use a 2 degree shim (thicker side to the front) with the transfer case dropped, or more of a degree with the transfer case in the stock position.
     
  20. WakeBoard&4X4er

    WakeBoard&4X4er 1/2 ton status

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    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif my mess up. i had it the way you where saying.

    all good here, just longer shocks now!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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