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Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn't let me tell you...

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by Corey-88K5, Jun 3, 2000.

  1. Corey-88K5

    Corey-88K5 1/2 ton status

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    Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    I don't have very many bad things to say about electric winches, or good things to say about hydraulic's. For the simple reason of this. Look back a couple years when either fourwheeler or petersens did a comparison between the two. Guess which prevalied. Well lets just say this, the electric ended up PULLING up the hydraulic equiped truck. Here are a few more down falls. 2 of which I can relate to:

    1. Fuel. Is your truck ALWAYS full of fuel? If not, in a off camber situation your fuel can be away from your fuel pickup in the tank. = Dead engine. happend to a friend when turning around on a road & slid into ditch <font color=red>electric prevails</font color=red>

    2. Stuck in creek, river, flood water: If your power steering becomes contaminated it will froth up and render not only your steering but your winch inop. Factor in that the powersteering pump is located lower than your bumper on your truck where your winch would be located. <font color=red>electric prevails</font color=red>

    You are the only one on the trail with a winch, your truck: flips, breaks (engine malfunction) etc. You are stuck. You can't just remove your winch from your truck. If you had a electric winch you can: run down your batt's and or borrow others batt's. Another plus is your friends can remove their batt's when the truck is running so recharging is not a problem. Recover your truck and or friends. It may be slow going but guess what... <font color=red>electric prevails</font color=red>

    If your doing a major pull on either your truck or a friends truck and you "Smoke" your electric winch, stop, let it cool and continue. If you "smoke" a hydraulic pump or fluid... <font color=red>electric prevails</font color=red>

    If you want a winch that will be transfereable from either front and rear of the vehicle OR you have multiple vehicles and only want to purchase one winch: <font color=red>electric prevails</font color=red>

    If you don't have a snatch block and your anchor point is 10'-50' away or you are doing a lot of continues pulls: <font color=red>hydraulic prevails</font color=red> Keep in mind, most people only need to be pulled a short distance, and in cases where lots of people need to be helped they only need assantance. Usually a strap would do just as good as a winch. This could be also considered a <font color=red>tie</font color=red>

    Well I hope this helps. I wouldn't ever put a hydraulic winch on my truck as my main source of recovery. Hydraulic's have their place. These are heavy duty applications like wreckers and industrial recover. Sitations where you have access to additional help and don't influence a daily used component. Do your self a favor, save mone, save face & buy a FRIGGIN WARN WINCH!!!!!!! YOu will NEVER go wrong with a Warn product.

    Best of luck, keep wheelin and bolt anything Warn produces onto your truck.

    Corey
    88K5

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  2. paul_cfh

    paul_cfh Registered Member

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    not trying to start anything but
    1. mile marker sells a quick disconect for the ps winch
    2. they sell a hose set up to run the same thing to the rear of the truck
    3. you can buy the same reciever mount for their winches
    4. you can run another pump off the engine for just the winch (cost about the same as duel battery setup with the optama batterys
    5. if you roll your truck alone on a trail you nead more than a winch (friends or to learn to drive)
    6. only morons and stupid people cross rising rivers and streams in the rain
    7. and if your on a trail with an engine malfunction your not going anywhere anyways (gonna winch all the way home with an electric winch lmfao i'd love to see that)
    8. most people cary extra gas with them (atleast they should) run a fuel line into the can from the pump if your in an off camber situation (or put the gas into the tank)
    9 you can also run a power stearing filter and cooler (recomended anyway with large tires and such)

    to me electric winches are like electric chain saws ........they are nice toys but you dont rely on them to work

    just my .02 cents



    [​IMG]<font color=blue>where the road ends the fun begins</font color=blue>[​IMG]
     
  3. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    I'M SO CONFUSED![​IMG]

    YEEE HAWWW[​IMG]
     
  4. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Being a part of off-road.com, I have to express my opinion on this. ORC wouldn't let Corey post the article because there wasn't any benefits of the Mile Marker listed. True, Mile Marker is a sponsor for ORC but I'm sure if pros and cons were listed on both winches, and both winches were tested, the article would be posted regardless. The article is currently posted on the Chevy page http://www.off-road.com/chevy/reviews/hs95i and the negative Mile Marker remarks have been removed. This was not my decision, it was Pat Chicas which heads ORC. I don't mean to flame Corey here. His other articles on the KMA bumpers, Hellroaring and Recovery Gear were excellent. He does have some valid points about Mile Marker winch. I don't care for the Mile Marker winch either. Im currently running a Warn 12000 on my K5. I just don't want people to question other articles that Depdog and I write for off-road.com wondering if it's the truth or not.

    Shawn
     
  5. turbo

    turbo 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    I currently own and use all three types PTO (willis jeep station wagon) PS(scout II) and elec.on a surburban
    It depends what you want.
    If the winch is a tool for lots of use forget the elec.
    They are OK for emergency use only but don't try collecting wood hauling logs up a hill cause elec is for limited. duty cyce only and alt won't make up for current draw.
    like dead batteries buy an elec and try one long haul.
    Just compare the alt wire guage to the winch wire guage.
    Want easy instally limited use mostly there to impress your friends bumper orinament get the elec.
    Want a tool for daily use and lots of it only go PS power or PTO.

    Or ask someone else who never owned anything but elec and based his view on an article from a mag that makes money off all the elec winch adds. Just count the adds and you know which they will support.

    Sorry but if you want fair testing go to a source that won't take add bucks or ask someone who has used them with no money to gain no matter who sells.
     
  6. Depdog

    Depdog 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Well, I was not going to step into the fray, but after reading all the current posts I could not contain myself.

    If you are into offroading and I mean serious stuff, not little dirt roads and ditchs on fire break trails, I am talking Tellico, Mt. Aetna, Moab, and on and on, the stuff that off-road dreams are made of, then I suggest you take a look at the winches that are on the front of the Big Dogs rigs, bet you wont find a single Mile Marker, seen em, ran em and would not take one if you gave it to me, would sell it to somebody who had a tow truck.

    Warn will be found on 8 out of 10 of the big boys, and thats for a reason, and dont try to say that the military runs mile marker, ha go take a look at some of the hummers and see what you find.

    Now as far as real world use, I cant remember which mag had it, but a year or so ago, Mile Marker was pretty pissed about the testing done with their winch and the Warn, the put on a winching compitition in Great Britan, well, holy cow, guess which winch kicked ass and won the compatition WARN! and dont think the events were not heavily biased towards their winches, they were long uphill pulls that needed to have the cable pulled 2 or 3 times to get up.

    There is good reason that you see WARN Winches on about 85 to 90 percent of the rigs that run them. THEY WORK.

    When I bought my Warn, I did not have to have any special hoses kits or valves to make my steering work, everything I needed was right in the box, Mile Marker on the other hand has lots of little add on's to make their winch work, and as for quick connects, dont think I want to run hydrolic lines under my rig to the rear, especially with the way rocks love to kick up and pinch the few wires and lines I have now, and yes they are run inside the frame rails, still managed to pinch my coax for the c.b. in half at Tellico.

    Well, I am through venting, the above is my opinion, others differ, but I call it like I have seen it, and have no doubt I RUN the NASTY stuff.

    Depdog

    <font color=blue>"Lead, Follow, or BECOME the Trail"</font color=blue>
     
  7. shaggyk5

    shaggyk5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    man, i love you guys! This is better than Jerry Springer!

    shaggyk5

    aint nuthin in the world like a heavy chevy!!
     
  8. Corey-88K5

    Corey-88K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Paul_cfh:

    Here are my answers to your statements...

    1. mile marker sells a quick disconect for the ps winch
    2. they sell a hose set up to run the same thing to the rear of the truck
    3. you can buy the same reciever mount for their winches
    4. you can run another pump off the engine for just the winch (cost about the same as duel battery setup with the optama batterys

    <font color=blue> What would the benifit of dual pumps be? I'd rather have the dual batt's. Atleast you can use that real world. Dual pumps are USELESS. And as far as Optima's. Go with Sears Range Handlers. Better Warr. & cost less.</font color=blue>

    5. if you roll your truck alone on a trail you nead more than a winch (friends or to learn to drive)

    <font color=blue>Absolutely UNTRUE Any body with the proper recovery gear can recover their truck aslong as the proper anchor points are available. I've never had to do this, but it can be done. Having driven wreckers I'll vouch that just a single winch alone with out the proper anchor points won't recover most vehicles anyway.</font color=blue>

    6. only morons and stupid people cross rising rivers and streams in the rain

    <font color=blue>That may be true, but you don't have to be in rising rain for your engine to flood out. You can hit a hole or just splash water into the moving parts (steering pump) or intake.</font color=blue>


    7. and if your on a trail with an engine malfunction your not going anywhere anyways (gonna winch all the way home with an electric winch lmfao i'd love to see that)

    <font color=blue>I'd love to see you do it with a hydraulic one! That wasn't my point in the first place. The only way a winch would get you home with a engine malfunction is if it was connected to a wrecker.</font color=blue>


    8. most people cary extra gas with them (atleast they should) run a fuel line into the can from the pump if your in an off camber situation (or put the gas into the tank)

    <font color=blue>The situation I was talking about my friend was turning around on a road and slid into a ditch. Why would he have to carry fuel with him at all times? What would you suggest if you have a fuel pump. Your suggestion doesn't hold much water unless you think everybody has a carb. Oh,another thing. Did I mention that I'm a Hazmat Tech? You can't carry fuel in a vehicle over 5gal with out the vehicle being placard. And if you are attempting to carry a hazmat you have to develop a route plan, notify the proper authorities and have a manafest with about 10 different agencies. So, what were you saying about fuel?</font color=blue>


    9 you can also run a power stearing filter and cooler (recomended anyway with large tires and such)

    <font color=blue>Yet more of a waste of money. Just change your fluid at the regular intervals suggested.</font color=blue>


    to me electric winches are like electric chain saws ........they are nice toys but you dont rely on them to work

    <font color=blue>Ever seen a hydraulic chain saw?</font color=blue>

    just my .02 cents

    <font color=blue>Oh, and you can keep your .02 cents. With all the crap you have to buy and bolt on, you are going to need it.</font color=blue>

    Corey
    88K5





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  9. lew

    lew Registered Member

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Yowzers, sounds like a hot topic.
    I would have to vote for the electric myself.

    How does the Ramsey stack up to the warns, Plus how do you guys recommend mounting one.

    Thank you
     
  10. Corey-88K5

    Corey-88K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Most people will argue that Warn has a better warr. & customer service. I personally have only used Ramsey Hydraulic winches on wreckers. As far as the electric ones, I like the looks of the warns & the customer service. I've never had to use the customer service, but it there if you need it.

    As with all the warn products, they are out standing.

    As far as mounting, I like my KMA wincher. I don't like the warn enforcer. Who really wants a bolt together bumper? We have them on a few of our fire trucks and I didn't like the looks & strength of them.

    Corey
    88K5

    Oh, did I mention, the Military doesn't use hydraulic winches on ANYTHING with the exception of the wreckers? As far as Mile Markers claim that the army uses their winches on their hummers. I know a lot of people in the army and they have never seen a MM on a hummer. They are ALL warn or ramsey.





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  11. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Well here is something to add to the story...I have met somebody who was sueing Mile Marker. Seems while he was respooling the winch, the design of the cogs that go from free spool to drive have this tendancy to release under load. Well the guy had the truck on a light grade and was keeping the cable spooling correctly (read as nobody in the truck, on a hill hanging by the cable). Well the winch started freespooling and by the time it was all done the truck (Z71) was laying on it's side in a creek with about $6k in damage. Thy guy was still standing on the hill with the controler in his hand.
    Now I heard this story and thought...hay the guy didn't fully engage it or bumped the clutch...told my bud who wheels Tellico a lot who has one about this is he tells me his did the same thing and he had to send it to Mile Marker to get repaired. He also said he is aware of another one owned by a person in TN that did the same thing at Dixie run. Hmmmm I think that 9500i Warn will look nice on my bumper when I can come up with the cash.

    Diging it in the dirt with my K5's
    Grim-Reaper
     
  12. Depdog

    Depdog 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Well you missed it, but mine worked great on a very very short pull on trail 5, everybody was telling me to double line it and use the snatch block, worked great with about 30 feet of cable out, did not even grunt. Saw quite a few jaws hanging on hybrid drivers and about 20 people came to see what kind of WARN it was.

    Depdog

    <font color=blue>"Lead, Follow, or BECOME the Trail"</font color=blue>
     
  13. paul_cfh

    paul_cfh Registered Member

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    as far as the gas yes i was talking about five gallons (or less) ..........have you ever run a hydraulic winch? or are you just going by what you heard .........my father had a 79 chevy truck when i was younger (up till i graduated) in the winter that truck had a snow plow on it (hydraulic [​IMG] ) and in the summer it had a hydraulic winch that he used around the farm and such all the time .......now i know for a fact he never changed the powerstering fluid and he never replaced a pump ..........that winch never died and <font color=red>NEVER</font color=red> failed to pull somthing when he wanted to ..........now i would love to see and electric handle the kind of work done on a farm......... I'm speaking from experience not from reading mags (not to imply that you arnt cause i dont know) ........


    ok the chain saw was a bad exsample

    so why dont shops use electric rachets or impact guns (they use air which is the same principle of hydraulics only it uses air instead of a liguide)

    never seen an electric jack hammer

    but dont get me wrong i'm in no way saying that electric winches are not any good .........they are just not that much better than hydraulic .........my point is they are bolth good for difrent things ..........if you need a winch for short pulls (to get unstuck comenly seen offroad) then go with an electric ..........if you need a winch to pull all day long and never stop and you can deal with the extras than go with a hydraulic .............most people only need a electric (myself included) when i buy a winch for my truck it will be a warn because thats all i need .........but i'll never knock what i dont know

    sorry for the long post and sorry if i pissed anyone off (i'm not here to start sh*t) also sorry for the spelling




    [​IMG]<font color=blue>where the road ends the fun begins</font color=blue>[​IMG]
     
  14. White Knight

    White Knight 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Well they do indeed make electric jack-hammers[​IMG], in fact most of the ones I've see are pneaumatic, not hydraulic[​IMG]... as far as electric versus hydraulic......hmmmmmmm I'll go with a come-along works with dead batteries, works when the motor is up to its carb in water and hydro-locked, works uphill, downhill, sideways,level pulls, upsidedown....... hell its just great as long as your arms don't give out!!!!

    [​IMG]<font color=blue>White Knight</font color=blue>[​IMG]
     
  15. AZK5

    AZK5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Before I bought my Warn 12K winch I researched both electric and hydraulic winches. It comes down to this: if your stuck and the engine isn't running for whatever reason, you will stay stuck. This argument about long pulls or pulling logs is goofy. Most of the people I've pulled only needed to be pulled a few feet and they were OK. If your in a big hurry to get unstuck, don't get stuck. I've never thought about pulling a bunch of logs while I was out wheeling. What is this about not getting stuck while it's raining, where do you wheel anyway? I've got stuck while it's raining and I live in AZ. I you are serious about wheeling on difficult obstacles get an electric winch. With a gel cell battery your winch will work on it's side, upside down, standing on your bumper, or underwater. I don't know why people even discuss the issue. The hydraulic winch makers made up the problem of winching for 30 minutes straight so that someone would buy their winches.
    CB
     
  16. paul_cfh

    paul_cfh Registered Member

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    lol alright so i dont know sh*t about jack hammers [​IMG] i'm starting to like the come along idea .....they have some nice ones out there ........[​IMG] ..........this electric/hydraulic thing is turning into a f*rd/chevy type thing

    [​IMG]<font color=blue>where the road ends the fun begins</font color=blue>[​IMG]
     
  17. 89Jimmy

    89Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Haven't given much thought to winches yet. No budget for one. Cruise over to Off Road Design's site. He seems to do a lot of stuff right. I wonder how he blew it so badly on his choice of winch.(A milemarker, I believe.)
    http://www.offroaddesign.com/specsheet.htm
    (Just felt the need to throw this in, anyone care to enlighten me?) :-)

    John

    So Much to do, So LITTLE cash.
     
  18. Corey-88K5

    Corey-88K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    Paul,

    As far as running hydraulic winches, yes. As I stated before, I drove wreckers. All the trucks we had (and that I know of) had PTO setups. We did have one that was a automatic with a electric pto pump. And as far as being a magazine 4wheeler. NO, I relate all my information on real world hands on situations.

    I my self lived on a farm for aprox 15years. We never had a winch but I'll tell ya what, a 100# chain and a International can be VERY persusasive towards a tree stump, stuck tractor... any thing on the other end of the chain.

    Now the topic is turning towards air tools, chain saws & jack hammers. I was pretty sure that we were talking about Winches. Each application has its strong points & weak points. I my self would rather have a Pnumatic impact and tools, as opposed to a Electric set. Thats why I have a Aircompressor at home. Air tools are far superior to electirc (IMOHO).

    At the post I'm talking about, you said: <font color=blue>but dont get me wrong i'm in no way saying that electric winches are not any good .........they are just not that much better than hydraulic .........my point is they are bolth good for difrent things ..........if you need a winch for short pulls (to get unstuck comenly seen offroad) then go with an electric ..........if you need a winch to pull all day long and never stop and you can deal with the extras than go with a hydraulic .............most people only need a electric (myself included) when i buy a winch for my truck it will be a warn because thats all i need .........but i'll never knock what i dont know </font color=blue>

    I was sure that was what we were talking about. I didn't buy my 95i to pull stumps, or farm work. I bought my "Vehicle Recovery Winch" for... VEHICLE RECOVERY!

    Thanks all... Is this a closed discussion now?

    Corey
    88K5




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  19. Truckfan2

    Truckfan2 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    I thought I've seen a hyraulic WARN winch before... anybody else seen one?

    NEVER been stuck... *yet* (4wheeling)

    Stuck for 10 months (At school)
     
  20. Executioner

    Executioner 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Electirc Vs. Hydraulic: Every thing OR.C wouldn\'t let me tell you...

    When I was touring the Warn shop back in 1996, I saw plently of Warn Hydrolick Winches.
    They did at one time make them, today don't know, guess they still do for industrial applications.
     

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