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Electric Fuel pump tech? Euro vs US Aeromotive/Bosch/Denso/Walbro/Holley

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 73k5blazer, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    I'm trying to pick an elec. fuel pump for my soon to come RamJet 350.

    Why are the Aeromotive fuel pumps so much more expensive than a comparable, Mallory, Bosch or Walbro pump?The Aeromotive pump for the ramjet specs goes for just over $300, while the Walbro or Bosch inline pumps go for around $100. What's up with that?

    The europeons seems to favor the Bosch and Denso and Walbro fuel pumps, while the US market seems to favor Holley and Aeromotive? Why is that?

    Holley and especially Aeromotive pumps are $$$$ for the same flow and psi
    rates. What gives?

    If you look on some euro sites, and keep in mind, they do alot more aftermarket high pressure EFI stuff than we do over here, they say the Aeromotive pumps suck. Bosch,Walbro and Denso are the way to go. Bosch mostly.
    US websites say bosch pumps suck and are noisy. Holley and Aeromotive are favored here.

    I've heard some bad things about aeromotive pumps too from different places. The Aeromotive and Holley pumps seem more bling to me, perhaps that influences their price. I could really give a crap what it looks like.

    I've been digging around the web, but can't find much in the way of comparisons, does anybody know of any good comparison between all these pumps, for like flow,psi,amps,quietness? Personal experiences with any of them?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2007
  2. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Is there a reason we aren't considering the in-tank GM unit?

    $300 is more than you'd pay for a new sender and GM pump, it would seem the way to go to me.

    Not having to pull the tank seems about the lamest excuse I hear, so I hope that isn't the reason for an inline. If someone is willing to go with 8 injectors over a carb, pulling four nuts to drop the tank isn't an excuse. :) Especially when talking about a GM pump that should last 100K+.
     
  3. BizeeB65

    BizeeB65 1/2 ton status

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    all of the powers that be have advised me to go with a TBI tank and sending unit.

    My problem is finding one at a yard that doesnt have a hole the size of texas in it!
     
  4. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    If you can shell out the cash, you can get (new) tanks from various online places for about $130.

    I don't see why the Suburban 31 gallon ones won't work fine as well, although GM says there is something different about the sender, which makes no sense. I have a feeling they are either identical, or the difference is so slight it doesn't matter. Perhaps fill vent is in a slightly different location or something?

    Being able to use the sub tank broadens the donor list considerably. They of course have the badly designed plastic baffle, but if you are trying to keep cost as low as possible, $50 for a good tank and sender is worth it over aftermarket. I'd always take the sender out before purchase though, to make sure both it and the tank baffles are in perfect shape.
     
  5. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    Yes, there is a reason. I have an aftermarket 50gal Hickey tank (from the 70's), which has already been "renued", which is a process that dunks the tank in epoxy. At this point, it is rather unmodifiable. It has a standard 2" 6 screw opening for a generic cut-to-fit sending unit to work with GM gas gauges, to which I would be very uncomfortable modifiying to fit an in-tank pump. Plus, the tank is not baffeld, well, not to the specs a high pressure PFI fuel tank should be. A tank this size would need baffeling to the hilt. So to compensate, I'm running an lift pump into a surge tank (some call it a swirl pot), it's a small 1 liter size tank of sorts with it's own return line. From the bottom of the surge tank will feed the high pressure pump. This setup will ensure I have fuel at all angles, accellerations/decellerations etc.

    So, I pretty much have to have an external pump if I want to keep this very unique tank.

    Keep in mind too, the Ramjet is a PFI system, TBI setups don't cut it. The manual for the Ramjet clearly states that TBI pumps and tanks just aren't good enough.

    Cost is not so much a consideration. I love that tank and it's range, and I want to keep it.
    I just wonder what one is getting for the Aeromotive pump that costs so much more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2007
  6. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I figured there was probably another reason not to consider in-tank, but the Ramjet manual is abit misleading/wrong.

    TBI truck tanks are fine, they are baffled. Plenty of us running them with no problem.

    Obviously a TBI pump won't work, but GM has all sorts of TPI in-tank pumps that easily run 43.5PSI, and well over, I think mine is something like 75PSI, a Cadillac application.

    In any case, if you are using the tank you've got, neither really matters. :)
     
  7. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    Which areomotive pump are you looking at? They have a polished chromed line that cost $$. But a basic inline 45 PSI 325 LPH areomotive pump that will feed your ram jet should be around 150.

    Walbro are good pumps too. I run an in tank walboro in my Mustang IIRC It was around 100 shipped. It was a kit that included the filter sock, fuel line clamps, connections, and all gaskets needed.
    Walbro make inline pumps too But I think areomotive may be a better pump


    Never really have liked Holley pumps
    Never have used Bosch pumps.
     
  8. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    Aeromotive has one $145 pump,inline external, but I can't find a flow chart for it, they only say 45psi at 325lbs/per hour. (Why they choose lbs/hr on that one, I don't know.) Anyhow, I like to see all the specs, like at 12v vs 13.5v, and psi vs flow at a minimum to ensure the flow doesn't drop off till way above the RamJet's threshold of 55psi.
    All their other pumps are $300 to start...up to $700 :eek:
     
  9. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    325 lph should support almost 500 HP How much are you planning to make?
    Isn't the Ramjet 350HP or so?
     
  10. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    I've a bit about sizing fuel pumps, the HP rating way is not very accurate.
    Yeah, the Ramjet is right around 350 IIRC.

    It was 325 lbs per hour on that one Aeromotive pump, like I say, that is an odd rating, most pumps are rated either liters per hour or gallons per hour. Pounds per hour needs converted, but more importantly, there's no flow chart, so that pump could drop off fast if line pressure increases for whatever reason, so I'm somewhat leary to get that until I see a flow chart for it that plots different flow rates at different pressures.
     
  11. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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  12. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    Hmm..i dug around their website looking for that,but failed to find it. THanks!
    But I just noticed something I don't like about that pump, it has a barbed outlet.
    I'd much rather have AN or npt on the high pressure stuff.
    There's other choices.

    The RamJet manual says it needs 35gph and 45-55psi. so 35*6.3=220.5pounds, so, yeah, that pump would work.
     
  13. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    From the details on that pump:
    "When installed on its own, the 11105 pump may be upgraded to -8 AN (1/2") with use of Fitting P/N 15114, sold separately. "
    The pump p/n is a mismatch (11109 vs. 11105), so I'd call Aeromotive to confirm.

    I know conventional wisdom is to stay with a tank mounted fuel pump, but having been in a vehicle whose in-tank pump failed on the trail (in the narrows right at the top of Doran Cyn @ Calico, we were leading), I doubt I'd ever build an EFI vehicle with an in-tank pump. Had the owner of that vehicle not anticipated such a problem & fab'd an access panel we'd have been in a sticky wicket indeed.
    When I get around to installing my 50 gallon tank in the '91 it will be with an external pump. Partly b/c I intend to use the spin-on water separating marine fuel filter that I had on the '79, and to my knowledge they aren't rated for even TBI pressures (even though I think it'd likely be OK I'm not going to tempt Mr. Murphy).

    When Aeromotive first came on the scene they were called SX. That stuff was exceptionally well built as they were coming to the aftermarket from the mil-spec market. It was also exceptionally priced. Talking to their sales guy at SEMA their first year I could see they had a considerable education curve ahead of them. Been kinda interesting to follow their changes, but in the last couple years I've been too busy.
     
  14. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    Thanks for that info.

    Well, today I bought a GM Performance parts rotary 72gph low pressure lift pump, and a Bosch 0580 254 984 high pressure pump. THe bosch pump was $160 on eBay, the GM pump was $50.
    A canister fuel filter for the LP side right out of the tank, and GM EFI HP filter to put between the HP pump and the regulator.

    The bosch pump stays well above above the 35gph required even at higher pressures. It's not the the expensive and famous "044" bosch pump that the racers like, I didn't need that, but this pump is OEM on several Mercedes and Audi/Porsche vehicles, so I feel it should be a reliable and tested pump.
     
  15. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    looks like you did it right to me. It is always best to have 2 pumps. espically on a 4x4. Less strain on the system and never loose your prime.
     

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