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Electric Guitar Problem

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Inu-Hanyou1776, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    Okay, if anybody on here plays electric guitar, my brother has a question for you.

    Brother and I are having BAD feedback and screeching problems with his electric guitar setup. This screeching and squawking problem has broken up several of our jam sessions, including the one we tried having today, and we've both finally had enough of it. The thing is, it only happens when brother has his distortion pedal hooked up and activated.

    Brother has two amps, a Randall RG75 and an Epiphone EP-SC210. Distortion pedal's an Ibanez SM7 Smash Box. Brother also now has an Ibanez CM7 chorus pedal, but the hiss and squawk ONLY happens when using the distortion pedal and the distortion pedal is activated. We've started daisy chaining the two amps together and tried having the guitar plugged into first the Randall with the Epi daisy chained to it, then tried reversing it with the guitar plugged into the Epi and the Randall daisy chained to it. Both ways the squawking feedback wouldn't go away, no matter how much we tried fiddling with the controls on both amps. Brother also tried moving as far away from the amps as he could for the small room we're using, with still no luck.

    I know this may be the wrong place to ask, but it's the first place that came to my mind.
     
  2. 89GMCSuburban

    89GMCSuburban 1/2 ton status

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    Try just one amp and not facing the amp. Feedback is from the speaker vibrating the strings on the guitar, the amp amplifies that, and then it goes back into the strings and so forth... Distortion pedals do make it worse...might also want to mess with the gain controls to reduce it.
     
  3. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    *sigh* Unfortunately, we can't do either one of those. The whole reason we're daisy chaining the amps together is so brother can hear himself better while I'm playing, and so I can hear what he's playing and accordingly change what I'm playing when he switches from riff to riff. Meanwhile, not facing the amp is something that can't be done easily. Here's a couple shots of our jamroom:

    [​IMG]

    From one corner of the room. As you can see, the room's pretty small.
    Here's another shot:

    [​IMG]

    From the doorway looking in. The amps are located immediately ajacent of the doorway when you enter.
     
  4. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    this wouldnt be a problem if your brother had InuYasha's ears.:haha:
     
  5. ARAMP1

    ARAMP1 Aviator Extraordinaire

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    Is he using regular wall warts to power the pedals? If so, then the noise you describe is probably a ground loop. Try switching to 9V batteries (imparctical in my opinion if you play a lot) or buying a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power unit. The electricity is filtered and all my pedals are quiet even when they're all on at the same time.

    DSC02210.JPG
     
  6. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    Aramp, he's not using wall warts to power his pedals. Both his chorus and distortion pedals are 9V battery powered.

    He does play a lot, but buying 9V's isn't a problem because dad gets industrial-strength batteries for free from Verizon to use on the job, and he usually gives brother all the 9Vs he gets for free because he doesn't use 9Vs that much in his equipment.

    89, I was thinking possibly turning the amps around and cranking 'em up even more and get the sound reverberate off the walls, but brother doesn't believe turning 'em around will solve the problem either. I took a pic earlier showing where the amps are and I'll get those up and in a few minutes after I reboot my computer.

    Beater, if either of us really had InuYasha's ears, both of us would be deaf by now! That room gets LOUD when we're playing in there! :haha:
     
  7. CustomChevy

    CustomChevy 1/2 ton status

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    replaced cables?
    plugins on the dirt pedal loose?
     
  8. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    Replacing the cables may be something we'll try too. I'll tell my brother that the next time he comes down, bring some of his cables from home if he has any.

    Anyway, restarting my computer now so I can upload the photo I was mentioning of the amps.
     
  9. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    As promised, here's the pic showing my brother's current amp setup:

    [​IMG]

    The Epiphone's the amp on the left up on the table, and the Randall's obviously on the floor.

    89, you think you see maybe a reason why my brother thinks turning 'em around won't do anything? I think he believe's turning 'em wouldn't work because the sound wouldn't have anywhere to go and would just reverberate right back at us.

    These amps are now going to get a lot of use even when my brother is not here, as I've now gotten myself some patch cables to hook my boombox up to them so I can play CD's through 'em and play along to the CD's to practice now.
     
  10. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    New cables. Bad ones cause all kinds of weird things.

    Just curious, when you say "daisy chain" what exactly are you hooking to what?

    BTW, me= Bass player for 20+ years.
     
  11. ARAMP1

    ARAMP1 Aviator Extraordinaire

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    A little off topic, but I figured that I'd post my gear since everyone else was. :D

    Music Room 1.JPG

    Music Room 2.JPG
     
  12. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    What I mean by daisy chain is running a cable from the line out of the amp the guitar's plugged into into the input of the other amp, so the guitar's sound comes out of both amps at once. Doing that's the only way my brother can get enough volume really to overcome my drums without risking damage to either of his amps.
     
  13. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    Cool, that works, line level out to the other amp input. Back to cables or dirty input jacks for the common problems.

    I miss being young like that and just jammin for fun:o
     
  14. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    Well then, when I plug my boombox into the amps tomorrow so I can practice playing to Metallica's music some more, I'll swap the cable that I'll use to daisy chain the amps together a few times. What do you recommend to clean out input jacks with?

    Oh, ARAMP1, not to bust your bubble, but my brother's a Gibson & Washburn fan. He thinks Fenders are way overrated. ;)
     
  15. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    maybe some confusion here. Is the noise from only one amp when your bro is playing? If so, suspect the interconnection between the two amps. If the "feedback/ squeel" is from both, suspect the stupid little patch cables or the jacks. Cleaning jacks never worked for me, only like VERY short term, like to finish a gig. Take apart and solder in new ones is the long term solution.
     
  16. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    Gotta be one of the cables we're using then. Squeal's coming from both of them, even when the guitar was connected to the Randall and we were daisy chaining into the Epi.

    I've got two patch cables I can try swapping with tomorrow during my practice session (brother took one home with him so he can use both his distortion and chorus pedal at once), but I don't guess feedback like this can happen when having a boombox connected to 'em instead of a guitar. I've now got a mic I can try plugging in and see if I can troubleshoot using it.
     
  17. ARAMP1

    ARAMP1 Aviator Extraordinaire

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    Bubble not busted. :laugh: I say to each his own. I've had and played both. I enjoy fenders because of their ease of maintenance, modification and playability. But, even Hendrix, a Fender guy, had a Gibson Flying V.
     
  18. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    I would also suggest turning the amps around, but if he really doesn't want to do that, have him turn around and face you while he's playing.

    I think the problem that you're describing could be a technical/cable issue, but by the way you say he has to have them cranked, it's only with the distortion on, and doesn't want to turn them around, I'd guess he's just creating an audio loop from the amp to the pickups, aka, feedback. The distortion generator will add "noise" (and db) that accelerates feedback. If he was playing clean and at the same db as distorted, I would guess he'd experience feedback as well, but without the extra distortion noise, barely notice it, or not notice enough to be disruptive to the jam.

    You should also think about padding that glass lampshade...:thinking:
     
  19. theperfectgarage

    theperfectgarage 1/2 ton status

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    I see 2 issues, one is just too much gain on the dist.ped. for your small space, also I get the impression the drummer must be pretty loud in that space. Heres some ideas. try and build some 4x4 foot baffles to isolate and absorb some of the drum kits sound, I'm guessing It's the drums that are driving your high vol. levels. second, try setting the guitar amps up higher on cases or boxes closer to ear level then they can be turned down a bit. I would avoid hooking the amps together. Work hard on damping the drums and on your speaker placement. when you get it right everyone can hear and you wont go deaf as soon. I've got 20 years of full time stage and studio under my belt and I'll help any rockin wheelers any way I can. Wish I could drop by, we would get that room set up. P.s., I'm pretty deaf !
     
  20. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

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    Something else my brother reminded me of. The room the amps in is OLD! So old in fact that the 120V wall outlets are the old fashioned two-prong, non-grounded type, and we're having to use three-to-two prong adapters, meaning that both amps are not connected to ground while they're being used. We always unplug both whenever we're through using them. Could using them with no ground cause these feedback problems as well?
     

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