Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

Electrical panel...

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by cbbr, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    Posts:
    14,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    High velocity, Low altitude
    I need one in the shop and know that I can't do it myself, so how much does it cost to have one installed?
     
  2. dogdaysunrise

    dogdaysunrise 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Posts:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    its not hard to do. I put one in my garage in the spring.

    Its like wiring in a dryer plug. Chose the amperage you want to feed to the shop, get the appropriate cable (if it is not attached get underground rated cable and a bunch of pvc) Kill the main breaker to the house. Put in the 60a (for the sake of discussion) breaker in the main panel, feed the new wire to it. Hook up the Black and the Red to the two Hot locations on the breaker switch, hook the white to the neutral bar, and the ground to the ground bar.

    Now in the shop kinda the same idea. Hook the Red to one hot plane, the black to the other hot plane, white to the neutral bar, and the ground to the ground bar. I picked up an 8 location subpanel and mounted it in the garage. I ran a 40a breaker for my welder plug, then did 3 15a breakers. 1 for one bank of outlets, one for the other bank of outlets, and one for the lights.

    I can take some pics if you'd like. Just read up on your local code and have it inspected if you are uneasy.
     
  3. shewheeler

    shewheeler 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Posts:
    3,384
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hollister, CA
    I forget how much I paid exactly to have my panel replaced. Definitely over $1K. Not sure where you are located, but where I live it did require a permit. PG&E had to come out and shut the power off, then the electricians pulled the old panel and put in the new one.

    This was the main panel to my house, tho... when they did the subpanel to the garage, PG&E didn't have to come out, but the inspector was a stickler about how the panel was installed :doah:
     
  4. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    Posts:
    14,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    High velocity, Low altitude
    Part of the problem is that the house panel is full, otherwise I would just run a line off of it. That's why I am wondering what a new line dedicated to th shop will cost.
     
  5. mikey_d05

    mikey_d05 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Posts:
    10,453
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    mild hijack

    I need a 220 outlet in my garage, we have 110 out there and it's very close to our electrical box in the basement which should have enough capacity to run it...how much is this probably going to cost?

    end mild hijack
     
  6. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Posts:
    2,813
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Electrical work costs a LOT. figure $500 minimum if you get a certified contractor to add a single outlet. I do some side work and charge $100 per switch, outlet, or recessed lighting fixture, installed, not including materials. Just to give you an idea. Aservice change like shewheeler mentioned, $2500 is about right. A sub-panel in your shop might run $500 to over $1000. You should be able to get a free estimate. You only need two spaces in the house panel to accomodate a sub-panel. If you have two circuits feeding the garage already, then there's your spaces, you'll have to re-feed those circuits out of the new panel. What size service do you have now? Look at the breaker that shuts the whole panel down, and the number on that is the amperage you have available. How far will the new panel be from the old panel? Is the old panel inside the house or mounted on the outside? Recessed or surface mounted? All thene factors will have an effect on how much it costs. It's definitely do-able yourself. Take lots of pictures of what you got, and describe what you want to do, and myself and others can walk you through it. But, I'd say you're looking at $1K or more.


    Mikey, probably $300-$500. Is there conduit to the existing 120V receptacle? Is the existing 15A or 20A? What kind of amperage do you need for the 220v? If there's conduit, it might be as easy as pulling a few wires and installing a breaker. Again, take a photo of what you got and post up.
     
  7. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    Posts:
    14,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    High velocity, Low altitude
    Main box is 200 amps. There are two 20 amp breakers running to the shop now. Shop is about 75 feet from the breaker box. I can install a new box inside the shop and pull the wire through the top of the covered walk way to the shop with no problem.

    Supposing I can get that done, how hard is wiring a new box to the existing box and how much amperage can I pull through the new box?
     
  8. dogdaysunrise

    dogdaysunrise 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Posts:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    most sub panel boxes are good from anywhere between 60-100 amps.

    If you take out the 2 20a breakers you can easily supply the garage. I would just get a 60a breaker for the main box, then add breakers in the sub panel. You could do 1 40a for a 220v plug, and then 3 20a breakers to do outlets if you'd like. That would be ideal actually. I wish I had gone with 20a breakers instead of 15's.
     
  9. nemesis_pyros

    nemesis_pyros 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Posts:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Manitoba
    Wonder what my grinder would have looked like then Mike:doah:
     
  10. smalltruckbigcid

    smalltruckbigcid 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Posts:
    3,866
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    NE Wyoming
    Mikey, a friend got that done to his garage last summer, cost him about $300. But he lives next to gilbert orv. Talk to the electrician, if you do some of the donkey work they might cut you some slack. Ask if you need a permit, all kinds of legal issues attach if you do the work without a permit. I know someone who paved his driveway to his lake cabin without a permit, the county got really pissed and made him tear it out and apply for a pemit and then repave it. Minnesota has some lovely laws.
    George
     
  11. dogdaysunrise

    dogdaysunrise 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Posts:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    hahahaha. I bet it would have started on fire.
     
  12. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Posts:
    2,813
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Your breaker amperage doen't have any effect on how your tool runs. It doesn't matter whether you plug into a 15 or 20 amp breaker. Your grinder draws a certain amount of current, at 115 volts. You could have it on a 100 amp breaker and it would still run the same. Now, if you were somehow able to plug it into 240volts, that fokker would take off!

    That being said, run 60 amps to the new panel. You'll want to get this stuff called "service entrance cable" SEC. #6 AWG is good for 60 amps. You'll need SEC with 3 wires, plus a ground. Or, this is what I'd use, get MC cable. MC stands for metal clad, It has a metal jacket, and provides some protection from rodents, abrasion, etc. Whichever you get, ask for 6/3 MC or 6/3 SEC. Six is the wire guage, and three is the number of current carrying conductors (two hots and a neutral). Make sure you get enough, you don't want to end up 5 feet short, it ain't too cheap. Get the appropriate connectors, one for the old panel, one for the new, and a 60 amp subpanel. Get a 60 amp breaker to feed the new panel, too.
     
  13. dontoe

    dontoe 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Posts:
    9,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hickory, N.C.

    Is that heavy enough gauge for 120 ft run.
     
  14. dogdaysunrise

    dogdaysunrise 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Posts:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    Yea i know, were just joking around.... he toasted his grinder.


    anyways, I ran 6/3 to my garage and it is just fine. Not 120ft though.
     
  15. dontoe

    dontoe 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Posts:
    9,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hickory, N.C.
    Highjack engaged....................I need a 120 ft run though for my garage, underground.
     
  16. dogdaysunrise

    dogdaysunrise 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Posts:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    6/3 should be fine, just get BX or underground rated, and cut an 18" deep trench from the garage to the house. Get yourself some 1" abs conduit.
     
  17. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Posts:
    2,813
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Francisco
    COPPER #6 AWG, with 75* C insulation is good for 65 amps, with 90*C insulation it is good for 75 amps. Resistance of #6 is .51 ohm per thousand feet. Let's use 240' (120'x2, cause thats really the length of the electrical path, to the garage and back) So, .51 ohms at 1000 feet equals .122 ohms at 240'. Now we plug that into ohms law. E=IxR where E (voltatage)=I (current or amperage) X R (resistance). E=65 x .1224 ; E=7.9. So you're going to drop 7.9 volts. That is 3.2% of 240 volts, which is right at the limit according to the NEC. So everything should be cool. I thought he mentioned the panel to garage was only 75'. So, if thats the case, it's looking even better. I did fail to specify COPPER conductors, I edited my other post to reflect that. If aluminum conductors are used, he'll need to step up to at least #4 AWG.


    And, if you are going to run conduit, no need for the MC or SEC cable. Those don't need to be installed in conduit. Just get individual conductors and pull them through. And, do not run electrical through ABS, use grey PVC, with the appropriate elbows. I've seen wire pulled through 90* plumbing fittings, that is extremely ratty! (and illegal). Get the proper electrical bends, they have a large radius which makes wire pulling easy, and you won't damage the wire while pulling it.
     

Share This Page