Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

Engine Probs, anyone wanna wager what it is?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by dyeager535, Jul 21, 2004.

  1. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,979
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    Figures. Was running perfectly fine, on the way to work this morning, about halfway there, I notice it is starting to hesitate under load, but only around 25MPH.

    Keep driving, hesitation starts to get worse...up to 50MPH under acceleration I can feel it.

    ALMOST to work and it starts to smoke, only under load. By the time I'm at work, at idle, it's producing a nice cloud.

    Symptoms:

    White smoke. Doesn't smell like coolant, but I'm running only around 30% antifreeze, so perhaps it won't smell like coolant typically does. Smells like "normal" exhaust. Never noticed bubbles in the coolant previously.

    Cylinders 2 and 4 (at least) are dead. Pull plug wires while its running, neither affects idle quality. Nothing wrong with wires, and they are affixed to the cap fine.

    Idle is fairly good, but not as good as normal obviously.

    Check engine light came on once after I noticed this problem, then went off a few seconds later...I suspect it was the O2 sensor seeing a problem, but I haven't pulled codes yet.

    The engine sounds like a diesel, ONLY on that side. I am 99% sure that the sound is the rockers. The engine noise has always been louder than I am used to, but without the stock clutch fan, the engine bay is much quieter overall. I attributed the noise (present since initial firing on both sides, couldn't pinpoint even using a hose for a stethoscope) to the roller rockers and aftermarket roller lifters with the link bars, since it never got worse, and I had tightened up the rockers "just in case" after hearing the noise. I went 1/2 turn on the rockers when I assembled the engine, so when I tightened it, it's now at 3/4 of a turn.

    Engine has run great since I got a good MAF, but there were two things now looking back, that are probably clues.

    The temperature while cruising at the same speed, same load, fluctuates rapidly...gauge isn't accurate as far as numbers, but the temperature will climb, then drop down, and repeat about every 30 seconds. It's obvious that the thermostat is consistent, but that the engine temp is increasing then decreasing very quickly. At idle, it heats up what I would consider slowly...with electric fans, just have to wait until they turn on. The fan (primary) easily cools the engine down though once engine temp hits 220* (fan on temp)
    I also (still) have the heater hose hooked up to the wrong place (water pump) but I doubt that is the problem with the temp fluctuation...it simply isn't moving coolant through the heater core.

    I had an oil leak (missing fuel pump pushrod bolt) that I was tracking down. THOUGHT I saw a bubble pop in the oil that was sitting on the deck surface of the #2 cylinder. If the head gasket let go between the two cylinders, then that wouldn't make much sense. I can't even be sure the bubble I saw wasn't already there or was just caused from heat, but it was there nonetheless.

    I plan on checking the easy stuff first, although I know there is something serious here anyways...have to make sure the two plugs are good, and make sure they are getting spark. I will compare plugs 2/4 with 6/8, and maybe even #1, since the drivers side bank is running fine. One thing with headers, depending on construction, pulling a plug wire while it's running is painful to say the least, if not impossible.

    After I figure out if the plugs and wires are good, and getting spark, I am planning on pulling the valve cover. Just going to do a simple check of the rockers, see if anything obvious has happened which has caused the loud tapping noise.

    After that, will use the starter to turn the engine, and watch those two cylinders, see if the cam is flat.

    I've got just my tool box, so I am going to have to scrounge up some bad clothes even. No scanner, compression tester, etc.

    I'm expecting to see that the head gasket has failed, AND that I've either got a flat cam, or something happened with the rockers.

    Can't think of any other reason that it runs so poorly, two cylinders are dead, it's smoking, and it makes noise from the valve train.

    I guess this is more venting than anything...I can't think of anything else that could cause these issues. But if you think of something, let me know! Was supposed to drive it on a trip around the Western US, definitely not going to have time to fix this before then.
     
  2. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Posts:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Massachusetts
    Not sure of the valvetrain noise, but it sounds like a case of a cracked head or blown head gasket between cylinders 2 and 4 (even though you said you didn't think so). That would explain the poor running characteristics and white smoke out the exhaust. Of course it could be something entirely different, but it does fit the symptoms along with the intermittent check engine light. Of course I would not pull the head until you limited other possibilities (flat cam lobe, spark, rockers, etc.).
     
  3. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Posts:
    8,946
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Northeast Nevada
    sounds like a head gasket to me too. The temp going up and down is a symptom of air or combustion gasses in the cooling system.
    If you could get a compression guage. That would be the first thing to check before you do anything else.
     
  4. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,979
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    If it was unclear, I meant I DO expect the head gasket to be the problem. I'd be real surprised if the head was cracked...brand new, never overheated, engine runs cool, but I'm sure I'm going to find out!
     
  5. mudjunkie 82

    mudjunkie 82 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Posts:
    11,449
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cleveland Ohio
    low oil pressure, collasped lifters, 1&2 would be the last to get oil to the lifters...... /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  6. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,979
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    My reasoning for checking the valvetrain is that even with the smoke/likely bad head gasket, abnormal noise SHOUOLDN'T result from that, right? It's definitely a metallic tapping noise, just like a bad lifter, but multiplied. It was present before this incident, it's just much louder now, and only near those cylinders.

    If I had to wager a guess, it is most definitely from just under the valve cover that it's emanating.
     
  7. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,979
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    Just went and pulled the codes.

    Code 45, which is O2 reading rich mix while in closed loop.

    Since my setup only "sees" the passenger side, if those two cylinders aren't firing, that would make sense...raw fuel into the exhaust.

    Sounds to me like at least part of the valvetrain on those cylinders is still working, or fuel wouldn't make it from the intake to the exhaust.
     
  8. SUBFAN

    SUBFAN 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,334
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Davenport, Ia
    I am finishing up a head swap myself. My gasket blew between #4 and #6, then down again through the water passages.

    At least you have headers to put back on, I am fighting the warped a$$ manifolds, trying to reuse them....Still liking those Elites???? I am about convinced that is the way to go....

    On my plugs, the pass. side looked rich, and the d. side all looked lean. I got only 50psi in the offending holes too. 160-170 in the remaining 6.

    (JUST PULL THE MOTOR. i REGRET SWAPPING THE HEADS IN THE TRUCK)
     
  9. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,979
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    I just PM'd you of course, but as a general update, the #6 intake stud is broken. No other damage, pushrod straight, rocker fine, just broke the stud off about 1/4" under the polylock. All the pieces were still in the right position (rocker sstill lined up on the valve) but the stud was sheared off.

    I like the Elites so far, as long as the engine is well broken in, the coating seems to be pretty good.

    I'll have to think about your advice on pulling the engine...I have a feeling in the long run it may just be the way to go. It will be a heck of a lot easier to put the TPI together OUTSIDE of the engine bay than inside. I know I crossthreaded one bolt into the intake anyways, so thats another challenge I didn't expect to face for another 10 years or so. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Oddly enough, fired truck up again, (before pulling valve cover) and when I pulled it while idling now, the idle quality noticeably got worse. Besides I know it was sparking, I felt it. I hate that lol. #2 cylinders plug looked identical to #1, so it didn't appear that was the real problem.

    No coolant in the oil, or vice versa, and no smoke at startup or cold idle. Still running rough obviously, 7 cylinders.

    I can't explain the white smoke, but my coolant level is to the top of the radiator, and the overflow looks to be at the same level.

    One problem I can see with the injection setup and breaking an intake valve, is that if the valve isn't opening, I guess the fuel would just fill the runner up.(?) It would eventually start sucking fuel back into the other runners I'd have ro imagine. I don't see how that CAN'T happen if the intake valve doesn't open...the injector doesn't know to shut off, besides with batch fire, all on that bank fire at the same time anyway.
     

Share This Page