Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

"Fahrenheit 9/11."

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by newyorkin, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Posts:
    16,555
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    Los Estados Unitos
    \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    Is the media obligated to get the word out that this a fictitious dramatization?? Michael Moore's personal editorial and manipulated opinion?

    I'm searching for where this clown developed his facts, and so far can find none. I find he's left things out and manipulated things to create an idea that's misleading. He's making a big issue of how Saudi royalty and Osama Bin Laden's extended family were flown out of the country right away after 9/11, as if the white house were giving corrupt preferential treatment to Bin Laden's and Saudi's, while neglecting to mention Osama is a Saudi exile and that it's fairly likely anyone with any kind of relation to him would get a general citizenry reactive ass-whupping if they were found in the U.S.
    Although, what I can find on his website are plenty of accusations of republican conspiracy to block the promotion of his movie. I think the point he's missing is that his material is risky to promote because it's opinion, manipulated and disguised as documentary, and theatre owners see through him. He's smart enough to know not to trash theatre owners, too...

    Mike Moore is a class-A manipulative distortionist. He should never be allowed to utter the words "fact" or "documentary", much less call anything he produces such.

    Sadly, people will watch this movie and think it's truth, and not think beyond it. It irks the crap out of me that this will be self-promoted and regarded by Americans in thier decisions.
    Nice work, Michael Moore, in encouraging mindlessness in America.
    And Kudos for being the only person in america poised to make millions exploiting 9/11.
     
  2. bigyellowjimmy

    bigyellowjimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2004
    Posts:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    Disgusting isnt it? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  3. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    I agree with you that Moore is liar and distorter of fact but I disagree with the way most conservatives are reacting to his movie. The best thing we could do is ENCOURAGE people to see this movie, so that they can see for themselves firsthand that he is a liar and the basic thrust of his movie is fallacious. If we continue to try and boycott and bitch about the idiot, he wins, it just makes him more popular.

    It also enables us to debunk his crap theories at the watercooler with the moronic sheep at the office who automatically buy into whatever he says without thinking it through. You have to KNOW the enemy in order to defeat him.

    There is a new film festival planned and supported by conservatives and several of the films are documentaries, two specifically aimed at Moore's lies.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000552469


    In addition I encourage everyone liberal and conservative to be informed, you cannot base your decisions on obviously bad data, learn the facts:

    www.bowlingfortruth.com

    www.moorelies.com

    www.mooreexposed.com

    www.moorewatch.com

    I am all for an honest critique of any political issue, but this guy just exudes lies, and if there's one thing I can't stand, it's a fat bastard that sweats bullsh*t from his very pores.
     
  4. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Posts:
    2,880
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    I consider Michael Moore to be the Rush Limbaugh of liberal media.
     
  5. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    I disagree, but only in semantics. Rush is an opinion commentator, and an opinion show host presenting his VIEWS of certain issues, if Moore did the same that would be fine. The problem lies in the fact that Moore presents himself as a documentary film maker, presenting his opinions as fact and presenting only one side of the issue.

    Apples to Oranges.
     
  6. Goober

    Goober 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Posts:
    2,222
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Mayberry (Auburn, WA)
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    I wonder what Ray Bradbury thinks about him using the title from one of his books? (FAHRENHEIT 451)
     
  7. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Posts:
    2,880
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    [ QUOTE ]
    presenting his opinions as fact and presenting only one side of the issue.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Part of your reply is right on the money. I think Rush does exactly the same thing "presenting his opinions as fact and presenting only one side of the issue.", the only difference is Rush does not do it in a suedo documentry film.
     
  8. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    Ray Bradbury has already bitched about this publicly.
     
  9. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    You're absolutely right.

    That's why I qualified my statement with the opening phrase regarding semantics.

    The difference is the forum in which these opinions are presented, Rush's is through interviews and commentary (plus he actually has the balls to disagree with people to ther face) of which you hear both sides without undue editing. Moore's is presented as an honest interview, but has the other persons responses and defenses to their positions edited out to serve his purposes and his opinions thrown in afterward without opportunity for rebuttal.
     
  10. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Posts:
    2,880
    Likes Received:
    159
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    [ QUOTE ]
    has the other persons responses and defenses to their positions edited out to serve his purposes

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have heard Rush do the same thing many times. As soon as someone says something he does not like, he will mike (i.e. microphone) them down with his control panel, and disconnect their incoming Telco line.
     
  11. Capman2k

    Capman2k 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2001
    Posts:
    5,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    dg
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ray Bradbury has already bitched about this publicly.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I thought Ray Bradbury died in 2000 or 2001???!!!???!!! /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif
     
  12. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    That is somewhat different; the listener knows that the person has been cut off and denied the ability to rebut. Moore's tactic is to splice footage together to make it appear that the person had no rebuttal, or even to replace a quote from another discussion completely out of context in order make them appear to have a different opinion.


    There is a big difference between cutting someone off or telling them to shutup (like old Bill O'Reilly) and flat out putting words in their mouth through editing.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Rush is an idiot too, just a different kind of idiot.
     
  13. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Posts:
    5,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    Not dead yet:

    Ray Bradbury: "Michael Moore is an [darn]"

    Michael Moore stole the title to his fictuous documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" from author Ray Bradbury (picture), who in 1953 wrote his dystopic scifi classic "Fahrenheit 451." So what does Ray Bradbury, now 84 years old, think about Moore using his book title for his Bush-bashing movie project?

    The answer is, as journalists in the Swedish daily Dagens Nyheter found out when they called the author, that he is mighty pissed off. Here's my translation of the juicier bits of the interview.

    "Michael Moore is a screwed [darn], that is what I think about that case. He stole my title and changed the numbers without ever asking me for permission.

    Have you spoken to him?

    - He is a horrible human being. Horrible human!

    That Ray Bradbury thought Moore could take his Palme d'Or from Cannes and stuff it was extremely clear, even if he never expressed himself with those words, when DN reached the author in his home in Los Angeles. [...]

    Do you disagree with his opinions...

    -That has nothing to do with it. He copied my title, that is what happened. That has nothing to do with my political opinions.

    Bradbury said that he had tried to discuss the issue with Moore, but that the director avoided him.

    - I called his publisher. They promised he would call me the same afternoon, but he didn't.

    When was that?

    - A few months ago, when his plans about the movie was first made known.

    The conversation touched politics when Bradbury mentioned that Moore had ruined general Wesley Clark's chances to become the democrat's presidential candidate. Like several American commentators Bradbury means that Moore's support to Clark was a kiss of death when Clark did not distance himself from Moore's claim that Bush deserted from his military service.

    - He slandered the president to general Clark, and Clark allowed him to do it. Clark should have said: "Don't say that. It is not true." That day Clark lost his chance to become president.

    I understand. And you supported general Clark?

    - No. I support honesty.

    According to Bradbury others have asked him about Moore's use of his title, but "I don't want to make a big story out of it."

    - I detest all paparazzi journalism that is so common these days. If I just could make him change his title silently, that would be the best thing.

    Do you think that is possible, I mean the movie is very famous under that title now?

    - Who cares? Nobody will see his movie, it is almost dead already. Nevermind, nobody cares.

    But it won the Palme d'Or in Cannes?

    - So what? I have won prizes in different places and they are mostly meaningless. The people there hate us, which is why they gave him the d'Or. It's a meaningless prize.

    Ray Bradbury was very clear that he considered Moore a dishonest thief, but refused to answer if he would press charges in any way.


    article from:
    http://blogs.salon.com/0001561/2004/06/02.html

    I've always loved his books, but I like him even more after that.
     
  14. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2003
    Posts:
    2,257
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Chelsea, MI
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    I knew Michael Moore was the scrotum fungus of the human race when he came out with "Roger and Me". I have a lot of family that worked (and -s) for GM back when Moore went around Buick City getting people's comments and then editing the crap out of what they said so he could prove his point.

    Moore is like a shady statistician. He uses his understand of numbers (film) and rhetoric to prove his point.

    There is some truth to what Michael Moore says but it's hidden in lies.
     
  15. bigyellowjimmy

    bigyellowjimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2004
    Posts:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    [ QUOTE ]
    There is some truth to what Michael Moore says but it's hidden in lies.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    This would be great to engrave on his headstone, its the perfect legacy for him /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif


    /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  16. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Posts:
    16,555
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    Los Estados Unitos
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    So we're going on a camping trip this weekend, my wife read this post, and reminded me that one of the families we're going with are big fans of Mr. Moore, and we think we actually hung out with the guy at one of thier parties...

    Should be some interesting campfire conversation tonight...
     
  17. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Posts:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    SLC UT
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    this is my opinion of this overinflated blowhard!

    <font color="red"> </font> Micheal Moore, is a fat, self serving, hate mongering, unamerican, loudmouth, overly liberal,legend in his own mind, don't know when to shut up, maniacal, like the sound of his own voice, waste of dog sperm, hypocritical, socialist. that really needs to quit breathing my air!!!!

    NUFF SAID!!! <font color="red"> </font> /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  18. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Posts:
    45,030
    Likes Received:
    362
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    Moore is just a dumb ass. He skews, twists, distorts and creates "facts" in order to prove a point that is otherwise impossible to prove. Its on the same level as an elementary school-age kid cheating to win a simple game like solitaire or something... very, very juvenile. Of course he has some people fooled, how the Academy gave him an award for making a documentary is completely beyond me. Then again, they didn't even nominate Empire Strikes Back for best film in '81... so maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Moore has never made a documentary (which by definition must be as accurate and impartial as is possible) that I am aware of... all he makes these days are propaganda films. Of course, our enemies at home and abroad eat it up.

    j
     
  19. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Posts:
    17,372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Gettysburg, SD
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    I watched Bowling For Columbine when it was on Showtime a month or so back

    I destested it

    He only interviewed insane gun nuts and whiney fringe culture want to be criminals

    The one time a man being interviewed made a good point about firearms (overpenatration of .223 when used in home defense) he was cut off.

    Then the whole thing about the kid who shot another kid at school. Boo hoo, parent exposed kid to unsafe situation, kid's stupidity ended in dead kid, weepy teacher cries, Charlton Heston can't argue his way out of a paper bag, then it goes off into some exploited workers film

    I heard an interview with Moore on PRI, and even the interviewer on THAT station, sounded very disgusted with him.

    It's propaganda. The best way to get attention is to raise Cain. No one wants to hear a about good news.

    "Tonight at 11. RJ enjoys latest DVD purchase, man finishes subframe, Chicken is beginning a trend of tasting better, and everything is pretty damn nice."
     
  20. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2001
    Posts:
    8,972
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Peoria, AZ
    Re: \"Fahrenheit 9/11.\"

    His movie "Bowling for Columbine" was the same way. It was lies, fiction, and distortion. I turned it off half way threw from disgust. It hit me pretty hard since I lived in Colorado and I played football with a gentleman that went to Columbine High and was there when I happened. He did a very moving speech on it in speech class and it was very sobering.

    Then someone like Michael Moore goes and makes a mokery of it. I know it is his right to say whatever he likes but it still isn't right to lie about something like that, at least in my mind.

    Harley
     

Share This Page