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Finished my auto to manual swap, now I have no power to the starter!!!

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by TruckNutzDude, Sep 23, 2004.

  1. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    This is on an '89 K5 with TBI. Started life out as a 700R4/241 and now it's a Hydraulic 465/205 /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif I know there are/were two wires that needed to be jumped somewhere. On every chevy except mine the wires were large gage purple and yellow and they connected to the steering column gear selector. On my '89 the wires are not there! What color should these wires be or am I missing something else that would keep me from getting power to the starter?

    PS. I swapped in a manual transmission column from an '87 K5 when I did my swap.
     
  2. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    It is most likely the park/nuetral lock out switch. I don't know what the color is but they either hook to the tranny or in the column to the gear selector. Just trace them out.

    Last thing have you eliminated all the oh I feel stupid things, battery dead etc.????
     
  3. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    I'm using a new yellow top optima, I have lights and the fuel pump works. Starter is good. I'm trying to trace the wires out but it's hard because I have removed a few things like heat and the stereo so there are other wires hanging around. /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif
     
  4. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    Put the starter on a toggle switch and manually activate the starter. With a manual tranny you will want to be able to start it in gear if you need to also.

    Make sure to run a fuse in the line between the battery and the toggle switch. I am running a 25 amp fuse and I haven't blown it out yet.

    Harley

    P.S. in the stock column the starter wire should be a large purple wire.
     
  5. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Put the starter on a toggle switch and manually activate the starter. With a manual tranny you will want to be able to start it in gear if you need to also.

    Make sure to run a fuse in the line between the battery and the toggle switch. I am running a 25 amp fuse and I haven't blown it out yet.

    Harley

    P.S. in the stock column the starter wire should be a large purple wire.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I was looking for the large purple and yellow wires because typicaly that is what is connected to the neutral safety switch. I can't seem to find them anywhere though. Are they part of the column wiring harness or do they come from the fuse block? This TBI wiring is really screwy... /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif
     
  6. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Mine has the big yellow and purple wires, but not sure what vintage it is, sorry.

    How about asking/searching for a TBI wiring manual scan? Should show what is what.
     
  7. daleearnhardt01

    daleearnhardt01 1/2 ton status

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    Ill get you a pic tommorow man....I got the factory manual for my 90 ....
     
  8. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    I found the purple starter wire in the harness that runs into the column. Had to cut some electrical tape off to get to it.

    I am running an extra fuse panel in my truck. It is a Buss Fuse panel that is mounted to the passenger side of the firewall above the starter. (AC box is gone now and there is a hole in the passengers side of the firewall that my FI wiring harness runs threw so I can get wires in that way too)

    The fuse panel is connected directly to the battery. The panel has 6 outlets for power up to 30amps each. I connected a wire from an outlet, ran it incab to a toggle switch mounted in the dash and then back to the starter solinoid. I just kick the toggle and the starter kicks over.

    Makes live easier then having to find a bunch of wires under the dash and trying to splice around them.

    Harley
     
  9. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    Hmmm... I removed my A/C box too. I'm really thinking of putting a remote start button in my rig. It would make a good anti-theft device if I placed it in the right spot. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Maybe I'll have to cut back some of the tape on my harness and see if I can find that purple wire. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  10. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ill get you a pic tommorow man....I got the factory manual for my 90 ....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    TTT /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif
     
  11. jimmy88

    jimmy88 1/2 ton status

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    You get this figured out yet? Don’t know about 89 or 87, but for 88 there is no electrical neutral safety switch. You physically can’t turn the key to start unless the shift lever is in Park or Neutral. Did you use the ign switch and wires from the 87 column and does it have a pigtail for the clutch interlock? If so you have to jump that. According to the 88 wiring diagram it’ll have a purple and a yellow wire. If you want I can email you the 88 diagram.
     
  12. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    The pigtail part is what I'm missing. I know the yellow and purple wires are supposed to be there but they're not... where should the come off of? Do they start at the fuse block or the ecm, maybe the steering column? I've kind of given up and started looking for an entire manual trans. wiring harness but I would like to see if I can find the correct wires for mine first. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
     
  13. Rolled

    Rolled 1/2 ton status

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    jimmy88 - That is odd, you should have the switch on the bottom of the column... In addition to it being a safety feature, the computer needs to know if the truck is in nuetral/park. The column in my truck came out of a 91 Blazer and it has the switch... My guess is, yours was spliced together, once upon a time, and the switch removed.


    trucknutz -

    Was the rig running with the automatic? If so, it had to have the plug or they were jumped...


    I had an original 465 in my 87 (I swapped it out for a th400). The plug came out of the harness towards the top of the column. It plugged into the nutral switch on top the clutch pedal.

    I extended the wires so they would reach the automatic nuetral switch on the bottom of the column.

    IIRC, the plug is located lower in the harness for automatics. It should, however, be real easy to find if you unravel a loom or two /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Most people cut all wires when pulling columns. I bet yours was pulled at one time and the wires were butchered.

    I'll go take a look at mine to see if I can determine where they start, and finish. I redid my entire wire harness and just can't remember where they start from lol
     
  14. Rolled

    Rolled 1/2 ton status

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    I just looked - My 465 harnes comes out of the loom almost exactly where the clutch neutral switch was.

    Just unravel that tape and you will find them /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  15. jimmy88

    jimmy88 1/2 ton status

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    Rolled, thanks for bringing that up, sorry my bad for getting too anal about names. To me a neutral safety switch is an electrical switch used on automatics to electrically disable the starter circuit so the vehicle could not be started unless in park or neutral.

    The switch your talking about is at the very bottom of the column and it is the park/neutral signal switch and reverse light switch. “The Park/Neutral (P/N) switch located on the steering column, is used on an automatic transmission vehicle to indicate to the ECM when the transmission is in park or neutral. This information is used to control the operation of the transmission converter clutch and the idle air control.” A different part of that switch also turns on the reverse lights on automatics. Neither part of this switch has anything to do with the starter circuit. The starter circuit safety feature is the mechanical interlock in the column that blocks the key from turning to start when not in park or neutral. From the wiring diagrams it sure looks like as long as the key will turn to start, the starter should crank. Here and here are some lame pictures of the ‘88 power and start diagrams, ignore the incorrect label at the bottom of the start diagram, it is the right one for the LO5, L19-V8.
     
  16. jimmy88

    jimmy88 1/2 ton status

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    Since the swap the starter does not turn over, is that the problem? Just for the heck of it have you checked both fusible links to see if they are good? Have you tried a remote start switch (like the clip on ones to do compression checks) to check the starter? When the key is in run and the starter is turned over with the remote switch does the motor turn over and run? According to the ‘88 diagram there is a red wire bringing power in to the ignition switch and a purple wire out of the switch to the starter solenoid. If the clutch interlock pigtail is present then instead of purple, its a yellow wire that comes out of the ignition switch going to the interlock connector and then a purple wire from the interlock connector to the solenoid.

    If it was me I’d get a test light and check to see the red wire to the ignition switch was getting power. If not find out why. If it is then check to see if the purple wire gets power when the key is turned to start. If it doesn’t then it could be a bad switch or 87 and 89 switches are not interchangeable or something with the rod or lock cylinder, etc. If the purple wire does get power and the starter does not turn over, then see if the wire at solenoid is getting power. Maybe the wire got pinched and cut somewhere during the swap? You also might want to get the 87 and 89 diagrams to see if there were changes to the start circuit between those years.
     
  17. Rolled

    Rolled 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    A different part of that switch also turns on the reverse lights on automatics. Neither part of this switch has anything to do with the starter circuit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is incorrect... The switch at the bottom of the column, the Park/Nuetral switch, has everything to do with the starter.

    If you need proof, go unplug the ,heavy guage, purple and yellow, wires to it and try to start your rig.
     
  18. jimmy88

    jimmy88 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    A different part of that switch also turns on the reverse lights on automatics. Neither part of this switch has anything to do with the starter circuit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is incorrect... The switch at the bottom of the column, the Park/Nuetral switch, has everything to do with the starter.

    If you need proof, go unplug the ,heavy guage, purple and yellow, wires to it and try to start your rig.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Don’t know what to tell you. If you want to see for yourself I can take some pictures of the 89 since its dash and instrument panel are gone. We are talking about Trucknutzdude’s 89 K5 with TBI . Going by the 88 factory service manual and my trucks (88 full size Jimmy, 88 GMC ½ ton Suburban and 89 K5 Blazer parts truck, all with automatics) what your calling the neutral safety switch has nothing to do with the starter circuit. On the 88's and 89's with automatics, the switch has four wimpy wires. Blue and Green for the reverse lights. Orange w/thin black stripe and black w/thin white stripe for ECM (computer). The heavy red and purple wires go to the ignition switch which is hidden on top of the column up under the metal shield. And yes to make sure, I pulled the connectors off the “neutral safety switch” on the Jimmy and the truck starts and runs fine.
     
  19. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    My rig was running with the automatic. The wiring harness was untouched (even had the factory stereo) when I got it last year from an elderly gentleman. I've basicly given up looking for the wires though, it's too darn cold out lately and I have no garage. If there are any nice days out I will go check again and see if I can find any wires that will work. The basic idea is that I need to jump out the plug on the heavy purple and yellow wires. I've done it before I just need to find them. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     

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