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Flat Belly Pan with the Doubler?

Discussion in 'OffRoad Design' started by Sandman, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    I have finnally collected the right transfercases for the ORD doubler (possible winter project). Is there a way to rotate everything around so I can run a flat belly pan? I know the ORD Blazer does but it also runs a drivers side 205 so I dont know how that effects anything. I run a 1" Body lift, 4" suspension and I'm not afraid to cut the floor for clearance. How would the shifters work out? I would want the triple stick setup (If your doing this, you might as well do it all).

    Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
     
  2. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Sandman they have the Al. Version of the Blazer doubler done and out but yes it does use a drivers side drop. I would imagine that Stephen could be persuaded into reversing the program to get the pasenger side drop done. There are several issues with doing this though.

    Tranny clearance to the front D shaft could be ugly, body/floor mods are needed.

    I think in your case you would want the Ford version of the 203, and the chevy round pattern 205.

    The shifters are easy to do, but they are interesting shapes. As the 203 is rotated the shifter ends up on top of the drivetrain between the floor and the case.

    I am running the flat cases in the buggy with the drivers side drop myself.

    It would probably be well worth your time to call and talk to Stephen as he will be able to explain the pros and cons of this better than anyone. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  3. 74k20

    74k20 Registered Member

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    I am running the 2" up clocked doubler and if you cut the floor out and weld it in higher, you can work some magic with the crosmember and end up totally flat. I don't think clocking the 203 is even necessary. With a driver side drop, one thing that would raise difficulty would be the oil filter. I realize its a tiny detail and is easily fixed, but its one more thing you would be hitting your head against the wall for.
     
  4. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Well it all depends what you have. With the completly flat doubler rotation you don't have to raise the transfercases in the vehicle at all. It leaves them as low as possible for better driveshaft angles. To give you an idea the 203 gear case mounts vertical in the stock configuration, it is something like 9 inches( I'm guessing) from drivetrain center line to the bottom of the case. Now rotate it 90 degrees to put the shifter on the top. The diminsion to the bottom of the 203 is now somewhere near 6".
    There is three inches of ground clearance that you don't have to lift the vehicle farther to get.
    Yes the oil filter is very close to my front drivesshaft. But my motor sits about 6" lower than it would be if I were running a stock chassis.
    By the way this is all in a buggy that has the entire drivetrain mounted as low as possible and as far back as possible. Given the drivetrain and axles used. The transfercases almost sit on the belly pan and the floor pan almost hits the top of the transfercases.
     
  5. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    What are the differences with the Ford version 203 against the Chevy version?

    I would be using the pass drop so rotating the 203 that way may not work. Rotating it the other way would be fine but might give some shifter problems. Maybe that would be the biggest hurdle is the 203 shifter.
     
  6. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    The only dif. that I know of is the side that the shifter is on. The problem that arises is that the 203 rotates one way flat and the 205 is on the other side.
    If you don't use the correct version 203 the shifter ends up on the bottom and would probably leak.
     
  7. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    Ah, I see. So Using the Ford version, you can rotate the bottom of the 203 over to the drivers side, have the shifter assembly on top, and have room to put the 205 wherever you need it (2" up might be just fine).

    Does this sound right?
     
  8. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    DING, DING, DING you are the winner of Miniwallys confusing explinations for the day.
    The 2 inch up rotation on the doubler rotates the 205 to the point that the bottom of the 203 in the stock location and the bottom of the rotated 205 are flat across themselves. You still have a bulging belly at that point.
    But by rotating the 203 you gain the clearance to the bottom of it so why not gain the clearance to the bottom of the 205. This gives you the high and tight flat belly that so many of are after.
     
  9. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    So is there an adapter on the drawing board for a setup like this? /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif

    I can always start looking around for a Ford 203.

    Thanks for the responses. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  10. 74k20

    74k20 Registered Member

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    I have to agree with Miniwally. If you can get the right 203 to clock it, fine, but with a 2" up you still have to worry about the 205. I think, assuming I read it right, that If you were to clock the 205 up even further, say 5", it woud be flush with a clocked 203.

    With the right shifter on that, you would be in flat belly land using the right crossmember and maybe a slight floor mod. Where's the exhaust going to go though???

    I wonder if the stock rotation doubler clocked down two inches would yield something close?
     
  11. beater74

    beater74 1/2 ton status

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    what about running the cheby 203 upsidedown and clocking the 205? i know the 203 shifter might still leak alil but /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  12. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    You can put the 203 upside down but there is not much reason to. It does not gain you any more clearance, you have to deal with it inside with you, and it may not lube as well and leak.

    The completly flat version of the doubler does have the 205 clocked an additional few inches to get the most ground clearance possible from the drivetrain center line.
     
  13. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    I guess we can look at the possibilities at BB04. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    Well I see on the ORD site that there is already a solution. I guess I could have looked /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

    So to keep the shifting on the top by using the Ford 203, What will it take to mount the ford 203 to my Chevy tranny?
     
  15. dhdescender

    dhdescender 1/2 ton status

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    The faces of the NP203's are the same, you'd use the chevy adaptor.
     
  16. 70~K5

    70~K5 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The faces of the NP203's are the same, you'd use the chevy adaptor.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Will the Chevy input gear match up to the ford guts? Or do you use the Chevy guts in a ford case?
     
  17. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    OK, in the beginning, there was the Jim Jack Doubler. This was named because a guy named Jimmy Jack bought the first one on which we rotated the 205 up to match the bottom of the 203 gearbox in the stock rotation. This has turned out to be one of our more popular kits since it's a nice blend of clearance and decent driveline angles. So if you hear or see the term "Jim Jack" or "JJ" in association with your Doubler, now you know why. That's our internal name for it.

    Then we wanted more, so we built the adapter that's in Wally now. This uses the GM203 rotated 90 degrees to the pass. side and the ford 205 turned up so that the outputs are level. My drivetrain centerline is in a close approximation of the factory location in the frame and the belly is flat from rail to rail with the exception of a tiny bit of skidplate where we busted some measurement by about 1/8". The original (mine) was/is welded steel but we have a new billet version that's in mini-wally (and others) now. There are pics on the site. I caution all who dream of flat bellies using this setup that the driveshaft angles can get kind of nasty. I'm running a 1350 CV ground out for about 35 degrees to make it work with my ride height and droop travel. Your needs will vary but the way to look at this is that you're adding about 5" of lift as far as the front driveshaft is concerned so the problem really needs to be thought about ahead of time so you can plan on buying the mandatory $500 front driveshaft.

    Then a guy named Charlie Babcock wanted more clearance under the belly of a K5 but had to use a GM 205 (RH front axle) and wanted to use a GM 203. So we built what we referred to in the shop as "the leaker". I don't know if it was a leaker or not since I haven't talked to Charlie since then but his kit used a GM 203 rotated up to the driver side and a GM 205 rotated till the outputs are level. This puts the shifter on the bottom of the 203 gearbox which isn't a serious clearance problem but could be a leak problem. His was built around the fig 8 GM bolt pattern.

    Then a guy named Beck came to work here and put a Doubler in his buggy. He used the GM-GM-JJ (you should know what this is by now) version but built his crossmembers as shown in the crossmember page on our site so that his belly pan only sits about 1.75" below the frame rails. His rear driveshaft angle is pretty steep due to pushing the drivetrain up to get the flatter belly pan. This works well for his application.

    Then a guy named me noticed that he very rarely hits the flat belly of his K5 and that it would probably be OK for it to hang down a little bit more most of the time. It's nice climbing big ledges and occasionally I waller around on the belly pan and it's nice having it up higher but I've come to the conclusion that the flat belly isn't the holy grail. It's nice but if it doens't work for you, don't screw other stuff up making it happen. I have about 25" to the belly on my K5.

    There's the book on this subject. I'm sure there will be more.
     
  18. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    Sounds like I'll just make life easy and go with the JJ version.

    Thanks for you input. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  19. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Stephen, do you still have the GM NP203 rotated 90 degrees and a Ford 205 rotated flat? how it the driveshaft angle?

    Or what are you currently running?
     
  20. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    He is still running that set up and has had good luck with driveshaft angles using 1350 cvs that have been clearance ground.
    Remember though he is running a well setup link suspension in the front.
    I don't know if a "normal" "cheap" driveshaft would work to well with a leaf spring suspensio that had a bunch of droop travel.
     

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