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Flywheel problem. . . and clutch pedal question (added)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BowtieRed, Sep 2, 2003.

  1. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    Got my old transmission out, and am starting to put the new one in. My engine is brand new, but my old flexplate fit fine. The new transmission is an SM465 out of an 89 K5. The hole in the flywheel is too small to fit over the centering piece on the crankshaft. I guess i need a new flywheel?

    also- are the bellhousing bolts (bell to engine) the same on the TH350 as they are on an SM465?
     
  2. 75-K5

    75-K5 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    Whoa, can't use a auto trans flexplate on a 465, gotta get a flywheel, pressure plate, etc. Get the coil spring type when you do, don't go diaphragm.
     
  3. chebywanna

    chebywanna 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    what do you mean by "Get the coil spring type when you do" coil spring on the pressure plate?
     
  4. Gray Blaze

    Gray Blaze Registered Member

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    [ QUOTE ]
    what do you mean by "Get the coil spring type when you do" coil spring on the pressure plate?

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  5. Gray Blaze

    Gray Blaze Registered Member

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gifYou cant be serious , or are you????
     
  6. 75-K5

    75-K5 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    There's two types of pressure plates: standard coil spring with 3 fingers and diaphragm type with a bunch of fingers.
     
  7. 75-K5

    75-K5 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    I'm guessing your flexplate looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    It should look like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. 75-K5

    75-K5 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    One more thing, when you're putting it all together, use a pilot shaft to get all the parts lined up and bolted on. It's a hell of a lot easier than trying to line it all up on the tranny shaft. Just ask around for a pilot shaft or if you know a machinist, ask him to make you one. They're basically just a steel shaft identical to the tranny input shaft, but you don't need the splines or anything, just a model to help you line up the clutch and pressure plate.
     
  9. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    guys read what he said. He said his FLYWHEEL doesn't fit. He got that from the donor vehicle as well. Bowtie is your motor 2 piece or 1 piece rear main seal? the 89 you got your setup from is 1 piece that could easily explain why the Flywheel doesn't fit, if thats so you just need to get a flywheel for an older 2 piece motor, everything else should bolt on fine I believe. Maybe new disc and pressure plate.
     
  10. fortcollinsram

    fortcollinsram 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    Yep what Sled said...The 2-piece RMS motor uses a different flywheel than a 1-piece RMS motor...

    Chris
     
  11. chebywanna

    chebywanna 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    whats the benefit of a coil sprung vs diaphram press plate (seen those before just didn't know thats what they were called) (sorry for the hijack)
     
  12. 75-K5

    75-K5 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    Well I probably screwed myself over by saying that because a lot of it is hearsay, but not from some anonymous wacko on the internet. My neighbor has been building trucks most of his 67 year life and he says he'll die before getting a diaphragm plate. They are weaker and not adjustable. Granted, coil spring plates take a lot more force to depress, and a hydro clutch system may not be able to handle them, but it's a small price to pay for durability. How many heavy duty trucks will you find with a diaphragm pressure plate? I'm not saying coil spring is a better plate overall, but for old heavy trucks like ours it's the way to go. Plus, they're cheaper.
     
  13. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    I'll be one of the ones to disagree. Diaphrams are probably great for 99% of our use. A few people on here wheel their trucks with them, no problems I've heard of.

    Yes, the holding power is less, but I've never noticed it on the street. MAYBE if I was towing a 10,000lb trailer I'd worry about it.

    A lot of the "old time" problems were likely because of inferior design and small plates. I know not everything was small, but compared to most cars, our 12" clutches are huge.

    And yes, the problem is the 1 piece rear main vs. 2 piece. Should be able to sell the 1 piece flywheel to someone with a newer motor. They can be re-surfaced cheap.
     
  14. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    that's NOT the probel, i have a BRAND NEW one piece rear main seal engine. GM Goodwrench Universal engine, definitely one piece.

    So. . .
     
  15. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    AFAIK all one piece rear main flywheels interchange, and all two piece rear main seal flywheels interchange. I am not aware of any crank differences except those two.

    I know nothing of the GM Goodwrench universal engine, but it's obviously not universal, is it?
     
  16. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    Back when I sold auto parts,the 3 finger coil spring type clutch was giving lots of trouble--I had one 12 inch borg warner pressure plate fail at a redlight and I rearended a corvette because one finger broke,and wouldnt allow the clutch to disengage.Many of my customers with big block K5's and plow rigs wanted the best available clutch so I would sell the the 3 fingered one,and one of those ceramic puck discs that look like a fan blade with disc brake pads on it--like me,many of them had pressure plate failures in a short time--we had many disgruntled customers,and most of them went to a speedshop(myself included)and bought a centerforce 11 inch diaphram type clutch.I couldnt beleive how easy the pedal was to push--I thought the pressure plate was junk it was so easy to depress!.We never did figure out why the 3 fingered ones were lousy when they come factory in the truck you can get over 100,000 miles out of them,but those borg-warner rebuilts must have been rebuilt in mexico or tiwan or something! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gifThe discs I mentioned work great,the local DPW here bought them for their fleet of International 10-wheelers that would lunch a clutch every winter plowing and sanding,if not after one bad storm--but they got 3 years out of the other "fan blade"type disc!.You cant "ride"the clutch with them though,they are more like an on-off switch,but I never made mine slip once--if I ever have another sm465 truck thats what I'd put in it for a clutch. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Sorry for being so long winded,but I thought you all would like to know this! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  17. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    [ QUOTE ]
    My neighbor has been building trucks most of his 67 year life and he says he'll die before getting a diaphragm plate.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Prolly won't be long (statistically)/forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif I sure hope i never get to be that closed minded when I get older.

    Borg & Beck clutches suck ass. I've had 3 and every one of them chattered, was super tough on the leg etc etc. I finally went with a diaphram clutch when I swapped the 6.2 diesel in and what a difference!! It doesn't slip either, and the 6.2 has much more torque off idle and down low where slipping would be most likely.

    Rene
     
  18. 75-K5

    75-K5 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    Well like I said I was just going by what I've heard, which is never a good idea. So if everyone else thinks diaphragms are better then go for it. I never claimed to know what I was talking about /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.
     
  19. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    Just personal experience...

    You should really drive both and see for yourself. Your nieghbor should do the same...

    The Borg & Beck is also very hard on all the linkage for the mechanical clutch. I recently had a pivot ball break off the side of the bell housing. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    Rene
     
  20. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Flywheel problem. . .

    [ QUOTE ]
    I'll be one of the ones to disagree. Diaphrams are probably great for 99% of our use. A few people on here wheel their trucks with them, no problems I've heard of.
    And yes, the problem is the 1 piece rear main vs. 2 piece. Should be able to sell the 1 piece flywheel to someone with a newer motor. They can be re-surfaced cheap.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Damnit. This guy is getting rid of a one piece flywheel and that's exactly what I needed a few weeks ago. Oh well...

    As to the diaphram clutch, whoever told you to go borg and beck was a moron. Ask trustyk5/Rene if you don't believe just me. I have a diaphram on his recommendation and I wouldn't have it any other way. Screw that borg and beck trash. It's too rough on your leg.

    I have beat the snot out of my truck and my clutch holds just fine, thank you.

    EDIT:

    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif I should have read further. Seems Rene told you what he thought of B&B already.

    I believe my diaphram is a 12" model. It's definitely a Zoom brand clutch from Napa for $140 for the whole kit.

    I have a 7/16 grade bolt for a pivot ball since my Z bar used to pop off my ball all the time so I said screw that and threw a bolt in it. Works great other than that I can't get the clutch to release completely but I believe that's due to the messed up pedal which I'm going to fix shortly.
     

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