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From a discussion on what is "alive" from another thread....

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by PhoenixZorn, Nov 4, 2005.

?

Do you think fire is a living organism??

  1. Yep, and here's the proof...

    7.7%
  2. No, and I'll tell you why...

    48.1%
  3. Who cares dude...

    44.2%
  1. PhoenixZorn

    PhoenixZorn 1/2 ton status

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    Who here thinks that fire is a living organism? Answer the poll, and discuss...
     
  2. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Let me napalm the **** out of some empty buildings for a visual aid................ :haha:
     
  3. PhoenixZorn

    PhoenixZorn 1/2 ton status

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    The following are the first and second definitions of "Life" in the dictionary.

     
  4. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    Damn. I answered no, but I don't remember enough from biology...

    What I do remember is: It has to be self-reproductive, needs to respire (breathe), and some other things. Don't think fire falls under it, because it's a reaction, not a critter.

    Ah- it's a form of energy.
     
  5. joez

    joez 1/2 ton status

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    No, it is not.
     
  6. 70jimmy

    70jimmy 3/4 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    1. Fire uses oxygen and gives off gases.
    2. It can reproduce, just ask a firefighter that has to go back to a scene, or explain spontaneous combustion.
    3. Responds to stimuli, just throw gasoline or water on it.
    4. It adapts to environment, which is why fire lines work

    OK I'll let this go for a while and come back and tell you why its not a living organism. Just have to muddy the waters. :rolleyes:
     
  7. PhoenixZorn

    PhoenixZorn 1/2 ton status

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    But come on.... it breathes, eats, and grows... can reproduce, smolder for days (heh... had to stick that in there) and can be killed. That's pretty much the definition of life. =) Someone prove me wrong...
     
  8. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    It's not matter. No mass.


    But very interesting trick question...:thinking: :waytogo:
     
  9. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    I think we have a winner!
     
  10. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    I voted no. Every thing I am aware of requires a certain amount of moisture in order to live. To thebest of my knowledge, fire does not fall into that category.
     
  11. Leper

    Leper 1/2 ton status

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    Fire is an effect, not a cause.
     
  12. 79k20350

    79k20350 3/4 ton status

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    there are like 8 requirments to make something life, it has to be able to adapt and blah blah blah, fire only falls under most catagories, not all. because of this its not living.
     
  13. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    i put yes and here is why, BUT i say kinda.

    it eats, breathes and multiplies. IIRC the defanition of alive has those three but also includes thinking. i dont think fire has a brain.

    its alive enough for me to say yes though. and its beautiful.
    Grant
     
  14. 79k20350

    79k20350 3/4 ton status

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    it diesnt matter is its alive enough for you, and i dont believe the thing has to think. i have to go find the qulifications of life....
     
  15. 79k20350

    79k20350 3/4 ton status

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    ok i found the characteristics of life:
    The Characteristics of Life

    * Organized structures that are composed of heterogenous chemicals - in units of "cells"
    * Metabolism: chemical and energy transformations
    * Maintain internal conditions separated from an outside environment: homeostasis
    * Growth: conversion of materials from the environment into components of organism
    * Reaction to select stimuli, physiologically and/or behaviorally
    * Reproduction: making copies of individuals via the mechanism of genetic transfer: sections of DNA molecules that contain instructions for organization & metabolism
    * Evolution: change in characteristics of individuals, resulting from mutation & natural selection - these result in adaptations (fire does not have this)

    All life must need water:
    LIFE MUST HAVE LIQUID WATER FOR NUTRIENT TRANSPORT
    Cell membranes act as barriers to most, but not all, molecules. They are thus differentially (or semi-) permeable. Water potential is the tendency of water to move from an area of higher concentration to one of lower concentration. Energy exists in two forms: potential and kinetic. Water molecules move according to differences in potential energy between where they are and where they are going. Gravity and pressure are two enabling sources for this movement. Remember in the hydrologic cycle that water runs downhill (likewise it falls from the sky, to get into the sky it must be acted on by the sun and evaporated, thus needing energy input to power the cycle).

    Bulk flow is the overall movement of a fluid. This moves liquid throughout a multicellular individual.Diffusion is the net movement of a substance (liquid or gas) from an area of higher concentration to one of lower concentration.

    Water, carbon dioxide, and oxygen are among the few simple molecules that can cross the cell membrane by diffusion (or a type of diffusion known as osmosis ). Diffusion is one principle method of movement of substances within cells, as well as method for essential small molecules to cross the cell membrane.
     
  16. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    :haha: :haha:

    We're not living! :eek1: And I guess dinosaurs and other species that are said to be extinct because they couldn't adapt were never alive... :thinking:

    BTW, where'd you get that list?? I'm not sure it's quite scientific...

    In biology, there are traditionally only 5 properties all living things possess that are readily testable. From wikipedia:


    The other properties are not applicable to all life forms, therefore using them as a standard for determining life would make some forms of life not "alive". Wikipedia made the interesting point that Viruses cannot reproduce without a host... The error they make in pointing that out as an exception, though, is that they (viruses) do reproduce (reproduction is the requirement, not any method), and the means should not be significant.

    Wikipedia doesn't mention the requirement of a life form to be composed of matter. But they also mention that fire and stars could be considered living, so I'm guessing their entry hasn't been really checked by a scientist. Life forms must be made up of matter and have mass.
     
  17. B_to_C

    B_to_C 1/2 ton status Author

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    If anyone is interested in what distinguishes cognitive thought from reaction pick up the book:

    VEHICLES: An experiment in synthetic psychology
    By: Max Bratenberg

    All I will tell you is what the person who suggested it to me said: "You can read this book in one night, but be warned that you will never look at life the same way after the next day." :deal:
     
  18. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    as was said before, Fire isnt matter, and it isnt made up of cells, therefore it is not alive.
     
  19. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    I don't know. I've read Stephen King's The Stand, and every time I get sick I wonder if it's the superflu...

    I'll see if the local libraries have it.
     
  20. 79k20350

    79k20350 3/4 ton status

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    Evoltuion is the same as an adaptation qualification. i found it on a stie that does the books for science classes. If you believe in evoultion then you believ that people (and dinosaurs alike) didnt start ou tin this form, we evolved to it. weve changed and are able to adapt to the areas of the world we are from and the enviroments around us. I did some more searching here:
    Adptation = #5: http://www.npc.edu/Bio105/Content/module01/m1_l05.htm
    six characterisitics = http://mimi.essortment.com/characteristics_rbrc.htm
    http://www.biology.iupui.edu/biocourses/N100H/notesch1.html

    It seems as if none totaly agree, but one thing i see consistant through all of the lists is "cellular orginization" that all life is comprimised of one or more cells. fire has no cells.
     

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