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Fuel Cell questions...

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 84gmcjimmy, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    For clearence issues in the rear for rocks and such, I will be getting a fuel cell. But not for a long time, I just have some questions...

    Since there isn't a fuel cell made specifically for a truck/blazer what kind should I get? I plan on getting 16 or 20 gallon with a 90 ohm sending unit (maybe). also I want it to beable to work if it's almost on it's side, so like I'm driving on my fenders, and not be starved of fuel (from it running away from the lines. ) I don't know much about them, so anything I'm missing, please inform me.
    Also what brands would you recommend, and what material; aluminum or the plastic looking ones. Thanks

    Steeve
     
  2. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    hmm anyone have answers? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  3. hi pinion

    hi pinion 3/4 ton status

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    Soon, very soon /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  4. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    ah, I thought someone actually answered my questions!!
    /forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif


    /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

    Wheres sled dog... he justbought one not tto long ago /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  5. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    I ran a 20 gal aluminum RCI cell for a a few years when I was mud bogging. Here are the specs -

    Part # 2200AS
    Summit price $289.95
    Sender ohms 0-90 ohms (included)
    Length (in) 24 in.
    Width (in) 20 in.
    Height (in) 10 in.

    This cell had a sump plumbed for -8 AN fittings.

    This worked well for me for a long time, the only drawback would be it starving on when tilted. I don't know of a cell that's going to work in all off camber situations. They usually have a sump or a stationary pick up tube, either design is going to have problems off camber.

    Where do you intend to mount it? In the OE position or inside the cabin?
     
  6. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    I plan to mount it centered in the rough spot where the rear seat would be mounted in my k5.
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Speaking of not starving off camber, here is a tank design I hope to find the time to build that should eliminate those problems in most cases. Basically, the large tank has baffles that force fuel to cross the hole in the bottom any time the tank changes orientation. Left to right, front to rear, the fuel will need to cross the hole to move around. That hole leads to a smaller tank/sump, 1-2 gallons or so, depending on what you think you need. The pickup pulls from there, and the return fills the lower tank through the hole. The return does not actually go into the hole though since you normally don't want that to keep from recirculating hot fuel. Basically it will dangle over the center of the hole so that it mixes into the tank when there is enough fuel to cover the hole, but goes in when the fuel is low. Without some complicated setup that's the best I can come up with...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    Very kewl! /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  9. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    woah thats a neat idea! What are you going to be making it out of Alumnum or Mild steel? Thats a great idea /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif
     
  10. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I have a 22 gal cell and installed a new pick up in the lower right corner and ran a pick up tube to the rear center of the tank. I have driven it far enough on it's side that I was watching the oil presure very close.
    My opinion is that with a near full tank you should be okay. I have thought about something along the lines of baddogs cell and think that would be a good way to go but I just don't know if going that far is really needed.
    I think that with a near full tank you will loose oil presure easier than fuel delivery. Or if you are running an auto trans the trans will starve.

    Just my .02
     
  11. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    that is a nice design. You could even attach the baffles to each other and leave a seep hole on the bottom and top. maybe a little sturdier. Probably not necessary.
     
  12. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I plan to make it out of 22 and 18 ga. steel with an integral frame for structural rigidity and using a GM TBI sender with internal pump, if I ever do it. I've also considered aluminum, but with the cost of material and process, probably not. Steel with sealer/liner seems to be the best balance point.

    I agree about the full tank, and I always keep my small K5 tank full before every trip out, but on multi-day trips where fuel is not convienient and requires loading/trailering where not otherwise necessary, that can be a problem. And I've had my oil pressure start bobbing and bottoming many times with no fuel issues, but I really don't want to have to use such a large tank or keep it nearly full all the time. In fact, I'm thinking that with a tank like shown, I can probably get away with a 16-18 gallon tank and save space as well as weight while topping off with a Jerry can at the truck/camp as needed.
     
  13. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Although whenever I would go wheeling, I'd always have it full, but if its a trail run, or long day, It could start to starve.

    How do I keep the oil pressure normal, and how do I need my auto tranny (th-400) from starving in off-camber situations?

    Russ, do you think you'll consider making that fuel cell? If you do, would you be willing to take lots of pictures so I can see how it was built? Thanks
     
  14. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Not sure if I will build it or not. Lately I've been lazy and haven't been too motivated to do much of anything. Been pondering/planning on building a full buggy the fall, which would ideally have the tank built to fit, but we'll see... I'll definitely take pics if I do it.

    Oil pressure and auto loosing pressure are serious issues, but only if you get on the extreme side of things. 99% of the off-road crowd never see problems. I don't start seeing any issues with oil pressure until I'm on the verge of going over, or already tipped into a wall and sliding on the cage. Mostly when severely nose down as well, but all in all, it's not that bad. Trans is the same, but mostly having problems on the side. My Th400 never had any problems even stock, but my Th350 had some until I put in the deep pan with deep pick-up. It would pull almost on its side after that, at least until I broke it. Once in a while it would get sluggish, but with no apparent pattern. Never did figure out why.

    What to do about it? Lots of possibilities, but don't go dealing with it as a problem until you are sure you have one. Some guys run pressure loaded reservoirs that purge into the system when the pressure gets too low. But it's never been enough of a problem for me to go to that expense and trouble. I'm on the milder side of the "hard core" crowd, so others have more issue than I do. Trans is another matter. If you have a Th350 or similar that runs out on it's side, you might need the deeper pan and pick-up to reach the bottom, but that's about it.
     
  15. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    On the oil pressure and tranny starvation issue, I will just wait and see how it goes, if I have problems, which I probably won't for a long time (until I am more comfortable in more extreme off-camber situations, and when I get more experienced) anyways. If I do, I will simply solve them and hope that i fixed it.

    What specs should I look for on a fuel cell? Anything I should watch out for? Someone mentioned RCI, any other brands?

    Oh, I forgot about your buggy your building. That would be a reason why your not motivated to build the cell yet. Sorry...

    Thanks for the help guys /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  16. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Problem is, I can't seem to get motivated to start the buggy either. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif Too much "other" stuff going on. Looks like I may patch up the truggy in the mean time for a few more runs...
     
  17. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    ooh ic. whenever you get it done, you get it done. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  18. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    What specs should I look for on a fuel cell? Anything I should watch out for? Someone mentioned RCI, any other brands?
    Recomendations?
     
  19. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Looks like not much feedback yet. I don't really know what to say either. There are too many variables to say much about it without more info on what you're looking for. Event then there wouldn't be much to say. I would look at the Summit and Jazz offerings, RCI and the like may be slightly better quality, but I've heard others say they are the same. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif If it were me, I would look for the cheapest option that satisfied my needs. Look at size primarily, figure out if you want straps or tabs, decide on aluminum vs. steel with a bladder, etc. Also consider the fittings sizes and location for your needs, sump or not, filler requirements (fill through the cell mounted port, or run a tube to remote port), roll over valves, level sender or not, and on and on…

    The only think I can offer beyond that is that I would avoid the tabs on aluminum cells just based on feedback on PBB. Seem almost all of them break the tabs, even with isolators, within a year or two. With steel, I wouldn't worry about tabs with isolators (depending on mount) but with aluminum, I would only consider straps...

    One final word PIG on PBB has Jazz on sale right now. Seems to be about $10-$20 savings from what I hear. Not a lot, but hey... /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  20. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Yeah i don't know to much about fuel cells, so I can't just pick one out and call it good.
    The size doesn't really matter to me, I will be building the cage to work around/with it. And everything else.
    when I get closer to buying one I will ask more questions, but I have never bought one before, so I don't really know what to ask /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
    Thanks /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
    I think I will PM BOWTIE tonight and ask about his set-up.
     

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