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Full hydro vs. hydro assist

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BamBamblazer, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. BamBamblazer

    BamBamblazer 1/2 ton status

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    I have been lookin into the hydro aspect of steering and im gunna do it. My question is, If i go hydro assist, the only benifit i see over full hydro is the peace of mind of having steering in the event of a hose failure. This is going to be on a rig that see's very very very limited road use. So if i go full hydro it will cost less than crossover with hydro assist. If i am missing something with the idea of hydro assist just being more peace of mind and thats it, please learn me in it.:laugh:
     
  2. Eric M.

    Eric M. 1/2 ton status

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    I may not be the best person to answer this, but I'm the first! So, here I go. Full hydro will have no limiting factors related to articulation. Flex, twist, lift as much as you want, it won't affect the steering at all.

    But, there is more to be said than just "peace of mind" if a hose breaks with full hydro. I'm pretty sure (not positive) you lose steering if the pump isn't turning, so, no steering if you lose a hose, lose the belt on the pump or if the engine dies for what ever reason.

    I'm not positive about this either, but I think it's required by the DOT (law) that you have a mechanical steering link. If it is, I doubt you'd ever find a cop who knew that or would ever check it on any vehicle even if he did! Heck, I was at the DMV this morning and they we're asking for smog certs. for 1975 year vehicles! It's sad when the people upholding the law don't know the law ... and we're paying their salary! But that's a rant for another post.

    I think I'd want that mechanical link for anything that was ever street driven. You're really not looking at that much more money in the big picture.


    Good Luck,

    Eric M.
     
  3. short sub

    short sub Registered Member

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    hey- im running full hydro on my rig and i will never run a truck again without it. i dont drive it much down the road but when i do it is honestly the same as stock- except it doesnt return to center. at times when the motor was not running i could even still turn it as i was being pulled so that wasnt a problem either. the only down side is that it is so strong if your tire is up agianst sumthing it will either turn the tire- move the truck- or bend your tie rod. last trip my rig chose to bend the tie rod so keep that in mind you have to build your tie rod to hold up.

    lata ryan
     
  4. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I'd never drive a full hydro rig on-road. Not because its not inherantly safe, but because if I get in some heinous wreck (related to steering or not) and someone ends up wounded really bad, or dead, and in the investigation they find out that I was running a "suspect" steering system, my life is pretty much over. Seriously, think about it. The other guys lawyer, if he's worth a crap, is gonna paint you as an ameteur wrench who unsafely modified god knows what on his rig and the result was a heinous wreck. Much less worthy arguements have swayed juries before. Sure, maybe you'll get lucky and have a cool jury... but you wanna bet on it? A draglink costs $100... I dunno about you, but my life is worth more than $100. Maybe not a lot more, but certainly more.

    Anyway, full hydro is a great idea for a trailered rig and when my k5 becomes ORO i'll prolly go to full hydro myself.

    j
     
  5. gravdigr

    gravdigr 1/2 ton status

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    How is full hydro less $ than hydro assist? Isn't the steering valve for full hydro big bucks? All hydro assist requires is tapping the steering box, installing the cylinder and running the hoses. And maybe enlarging the steering fluid resevior.
     
  6. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I think he's thinking its cheaper because you don't need an x-over drag link. In reality, any good matched full hydro steering system costs a hell of a lot more than a simple hydro assist system. Give Howe a call sometime.. they make good ones. Just make sure you're sitting down when they tell you how much its going to cost.

    j
     
  7. txfiremank5

    txfiremank5 1/2 ton status

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    Amen bro... amen.

    I'll say this, if anyone ever hits me and hurts a member of my family, running something like full hydro on the road... they aint going to have to worry about what some lawyer will do to them. :angry1:
     
  8. Blazr77400

    Blazr77400 1/2 ton status

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    http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129092&highlight=full+hydro


    Yeah, thats a good way to look at it sparky:rolleyes:
     
  9. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Alright, I'm sitting down....... what's a Howe setup cost, and what's included?

    Are you talking about a full-hydro design, or an engineered ram-assist for a conventional draglink setup???

    I heard that Howe is awesome, so I suspect their prices reflect that. It would be nice to get a steering box, ps pump and ram that worked well at any RPM, didn't leak, and worked flawlessly on the street and trail..... :cool1:


    .
     
  10. blk87K5

    blk87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Give Tom at PSC Power Steering a call for the ultimate in full hydro. He sells really nice engineered and balanced systems with some return to center. His systems also do great at highway speeds. And yes full hydro can be driven on the highway and at highway speeds with a quality, thought out system.

    I bet all you jackass haters pull over every tractor, road grader, forklift, front end loader, or any other operator of a piece of contruction equipment that is driving it on the street and beat their asses. :surepal:
    Edit: Thats not directed at you Greg72...
     
  11. gravdigr

    gravdigr 1/2 ton status

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    Can't say I've ever seen any of those doing 70MPH on the interstate.
     
  12. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    A Howe system usually runs around $800-$900.. That includes the ram, hoses, new pump and I think a rebuilt box. PLus everything is set-up to work together. They set-up the box and ram to stop at the same time accordign to your set-up. From what I have heard(read)....
     
  13. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    No but I have seen graders flat out getin it before on the road.

    I have driven my full hydro buggy at speeds upto and sometimes exeeding 70mph on the highway and also offroad highspeed stuff. I don't see it as a real problem if driven on the street sometimes. Read SOMETIMES.
    I would not want to do it a bunch but it gets the job done. It's not that there is really a problem with it just that when you think about that fluid connection to the wheels and that is it, you get a good respect for what you are doing.

    txfiremank5 I hope you never have a run in with any type of legally run equipment on the highway. Just about all Heavy equip. is hydro steering and I see backhoes on the highway around here all of the time.
     
  14. txfiremank5

    txfiremank5 1/2 ton status

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    LOL, you can take the sparky remark, and stick up your ass ... shop monkey :D

    I'm cool with a full hydro system on the road, if the proper measure are taken to keep complete control in the event there is a failure of other sorts. But, it's my observation that too many people half ass things of that nature. They assume that they will just deal with the situation if it ever happens, but what they don't concider is the fact that being on the road with such a set up puts everyone else at risk as well. It's true I didn't make that point clear in my post, that's my bad. But, if there are any full systems on the road that can't be steered in the event of a failure, I won't care if it's "legal" or not... if loosing power will cause the steering to be unusable, and someones going fast enough to cause some major damage, then you can believe I intend to bring down a world of hurt on them if it involves me.
     
  15. Blazr77400

    Blazr77400 1/2 ton status

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    Well said, its the bad ones that get all the attention(poor systems, non matched systems, backyard built kits)
     
  16. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    just for the sake of clarity, I believe a well engineered hydro system is every bit as good (functionally) as an assist system is, maybe even more so since assist systems tend to be less expensive and maybe not as well engineered (as a system) as a good full hydro job. My concern is that I'm 30 years old, and I really don't want to be paying some other guy for the rest of my life cause I got in a wreck, killed his wife and he has a dream team of lawyers. If good lawyers can convince a jury that OJ is "not guilty", they can probably convince a jury that you shouldn't have been running a steering system with no mechanical connection, that your vehicle wasn't designed for it, and that it was installed by someone other than a certified tech.

    You guys can run whatever you want. I don't drive to work, use any ram, any pump you wanna run. I'm just saying that I value the rest of my life more than I do having a steering system that is missing its draglink. As always, to each their own.

    j
     
  17. BigOrange90Jimmy

    BigOrange90Jimmy 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    No, but there are some tractors that WILL run roughly 35 MPH on the highway.
     
  18. Blazr77400

    Blazr77400 1/2 ton status

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    What happens when your draglink breaks?
     
  19. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    When's the last time you saw that happen?

    I swear, I've broken nearly everything, and my draglink is still there!!
     
  20. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    if my drag link breaks, I have hydro assist to steer with.

    my draglink is a HEAVY wall rockstomper unit though... highly likely that the steering box would blow up before that drag link or its ends broke.

    j
     

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