Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

garage wiring

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by freeflow, Jun 12, 2006.

  1. freeflow

    freeflow 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Posts:
    274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    alexandria, minnesota
    Well im about to get my welder and well i gotta get the garage wired for 220 very soon.

    Now we have the main service panel in the garage, and the main switch is 200 amps i guess. There are two slots tied together both say 50 amp, so them put together would be 240 volts at 100 amps correct?:confused:

    How many amps does a 230-240 volt welder take? And what gauge wire should be run?

    thanks guys i cant wait to get it wired up so i can really get going lol
     
  2. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    May 9, 2000
    Posts:
    8,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    FL
    Check with the mfg. of your welder as far as what amp breaker to run. Some 220v units only call for a 50amp. I am running a 220v stick that calls for a 50amp breaker. I have a 40 amp installed and haven't tripped it yet.

    As far as wire size, **EDIT** Checked on the net and some sites recommed at least 6ga for 50amp....
     
  3. RootBreaker

    RootBreaker 3/4 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Posts:
    5,117
    Likes Received:
    173
    Location:
    Williamstown, NJ USA
    Lincoln said my Lincoln Electric AC/DC needs a 50a breaker

    however my bro in law has the same welder on a 30 amp and never tripped it... and they weld thick steel....


    so anyway I do home automation and the biggest 240v control module is 30a max... I havent bought it yet but wired myself for 30A....
     
  4. grimjaw

    grimjaw 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Posts:
    944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Seymour, TN
    I talked it over with the wife and we are going to get am estimate on upgrading the service. I only have a 200 amp service to the house and 100 amp sub too the shop. That may have been plenty in 1963 but very tight today. I was thinking 400 amps to the house with a 200 amp sub in the shop. This will cover the compressor, the welder, the table saw and leave room for other toys later.



    Well, I had the electrician come out for a estimate. To upgrade the service was $8000....I don't have that much in all three of my trucks! To install two 220v outlets, eight 110v outlets and 3 lights would be $1600. I may not the sharpest tool in the shed but that sounded high.

    The wife and I went to Home Depot to price the stuff to do job ourselves. Upgrading the service will have to wait till I hit the lotto. After pricing out the wire, outlets, lights, bulbs and whatnot I hit about $600.

    Well this weekend we bought the supplies, a book on wiring and asked a few questions. By today (Sunday) I have all three (added one) 220v outlets in and working. We are prepped to install the lights and 110v's. This should leave us will a bit of romex (14-2 and 10-2) for changes.

    Saving a $1000 was a no brainer. This is not hard work, you just need to read and be careful.
     
  5. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Posts:
    17,540
    Likes Received:
    926
    Location:
    Massachussetts
    high prices..

    I thought 750 bucks to have my shop wired up from the house was a lot of money --IF I dug the 50' trench ! (this was 1992)...I bet I couldn't buy the romex and outlet boxes,conduit,etc ,for that now!..kinda wishing I did it then now..:( ..I have the romex,but no conduit or boxes,other than a few I have in there running off an extention cord from the house's garage..

    FWIW,I've run my welder from an outlet in the garage under our house that I originally installed for my air compressor,by robbing the wires from an unused hot water heater a few rooms away,(about 20 ')and using 12 ga romex to run it to the garage...
    ..it has only a 20 amp breaker,so I was not able to weld stuff over 1/4" for more than an inch or so,or at higher amperage than about 100 amps, without tripping the breaker..but I rarely needed much more than 75 amps to weld pretty much everything,so I never "upgraded" the wiring or circuit breaker yet..but I should--I think the curcuit breaker has been weakend by tripping it too many times,and the wiring should have been at least 10 ga..

    I also used a 20 amp 220V outlet,that resembles a 110V one,only with one prong sideways,to match the plug my compressor had on it..not the hot setup for an arc welder,but its worked a long time with no trouble too..

    Now my welder trips the breaker instantly when I turn it on..but the compressor still runs just fine,so I'm unsure if its the welder that crapped out,or if I simply need a new curcuit breaker..I'm hoping its not the welder--I'm lost without one!..


    So far I've used 10 ga romex ,and recently,a heavy 440V extension cord I found at a factory's dumpster to run the welder..much easier to roll up and put away than the romex was!...:crazy:
     
  6. evo

    evo Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Posts:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    oregon

    in a residential panel there is 2 phases meaning 2 seperate legs of 120v, so when a breaker is tied together like your 50a you have 2 seperate legs of 120v making it 240v. so it is still 50a not 100a. they are tied together incase 1 trips it will make the other trip since they feed the same piece of equipment. most small 240v welders only need 30a which is #10 copper wire, but i would check what it actually calls for. 50a you need #6
     
  7. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Posts:
    2,217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC Canada
    Welders have their own rules for wire and breaker sizing. Basically you go by whatever the manufacturer specs, otherwise the Code has a calculation based on the primary current and duty-cycle.

    My 240V Century mig runs on a 20A circuit. My Idealarc stick says 68A on the nameplate. :eek1:

    You can do lots with a 200A or even a 100A service. Nobody says you have to weld, broil a turkey, and run the clothes dryer at the same time :haha:

    I did my 200A service myself. I think I have about $2000 CDN into it - and I overkilled the installation.
     
  8. cwn anwyn

    cwn anwyn 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Posts:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Falcon CO
    I recently did this in my garage. I added a couple of 240v outlets and a 20A outlet for my current welder. I had planned on going with a 50A breaker and some 6-8 ga wire. Until I looked up the stats for the 240v welder and plasma that I plan on getting. I noticed a lot of the 240v welders are around 20A input. My compressor is 20A also. So I ran 30A breakers and 10 ga wire for the new outlets. I also installed a few more 120v outlets since I only had 2 initially in the garage. I did exactly what Grimjaw did. Bought a wiring book and asked the Lowes/Home Depot guys a ton of questions. It also helped that my mothers husband works for Eaton Cutler Hammer building circuit panels and such.:D

    Z
     
  9. RootBreaker

    RootBreaker 3/4 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Posts:
    5,117
    Likes Received:
    173
    Location:
    Williamstown, NJ USA
    I have a 150A service....
    all breaker spots are full so will most likely upgrade panel to a 200A service in the future.. my bro in law and my bro are electricians (1 licensed) so I can get them to do it and just provide beer..... :bow:


    do you really need 400a service????
    just asking
     
  10. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Posts:
    2,217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC Canada
    On many panels brands, the half-size or quad breakers are now the norm. Replacing the old fullsize breakers is a very easy way to open up spaces.

    I did a panel change for a buddy that was full-up on his 100A. We put the new panel in ahead of it, then re-fed the original as a sub on a 60A breaker. (I moved the stove and dryer over too.) Of course, his total capacity didn't increase - but he got 32 more spaces, a panel right in the garage, and didn't have the fuss/cost of permits or the POCO.
     
  11. grimjaw

    grimjaw 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Posts:
    944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Seymour, TN

    I'll assume that you are asking me. The first plan was to upgrade the house to 400a and sub off 200a to the shop. That would give the house a usable 200a service. I believe in giving my self a little room to work.

    Due to the budget I am using the 100a sub as is for now.

    As a side note, if you have not priced Romex in the last few months it will shock you. Prices are about four times what they were a year ago. I paid $180 for 250' of 10-2 Romex.
     
  12. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Posts:
    2,813
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Francisco
    400 Amps would be a HUGE service for a residence. 200 Amps should be more than enough, unless, like someone said, you need to weld, broil, dry clothes, and run a big space heater at the same time. I recently did a body shop in Oakland, we upgraded the 200A service to 400A. They run a 60A compressor, and two 60A paint booths. You should be fine with 200A. If you need more breakers, get the pancake breakers to open up some spaces.
     
  13. RootBreaker

    RootBreaker 3/4 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Posts:
    5,117
    Likes Received:
    173
    Location:
    Williamstown, NJ USA

    I was just asking.. I know what you mean by 400A house then 100a sub box... I was just wondering cuz I really dont know what you are going to run in the garage..... I have a 240v welder, fridge, 120 air compressor, computer with 2 - 24" crt's, petes wicked brews neon sign, track lighting, dual garage door openers and alot of that is on at the same time... however I do know what you mean...

    if the xmas lights are on and the wife turns the blow dryer or hair curler on it blows the breaker.....

    I do know how much wiring is as I just did my basement... also bought 100' of 10/2 for my garage and it wasnt cheap...
     
  14. grimjaw

    grimjaw 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Posts:
    944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Seymour, TN
    I have the compressor on a 30a breaker. The wifes table saw is on a 20a. I am installing another 30a for a welder I plan to buy later this year. I will have one more 30a for 'just incase'. This does not count the Bandsaw, Drill press or lights.....God, I going to hate the power bills.
     
  15. freeflow

    freeflow 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Posts:
    274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    alexandria, minnesota
    Well i think i have decided on getting a hobart 180 by this weekend.
    Now the 50 amps that i got free in the service box that should be enough right?

    And what wire should i run? i have 50' of 6-3 nm b sittin in the garage now, would that wire work?


    Thanks guys

    brad
     
  16. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Posts:
    4,987
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    The Rustbelt
    I second that. most houses in the 60's, 70's and 80's only got 100a service. 200 seems a little more the norm these days, way more than what 90% of people need. You need to look at whats going to be running continuosly. 200amps is more than enough for a small shop. Easy. If your pushing anywhere close to 100amps continuosly, I'd hate to see your electric bill.
     
  17. BrianDamage

    BrianDamage 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Posts:
    753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Alabama

    heheh 1963? .... you haven't seen many wired from back then, because it would most likely only have a 60amp service at the most if it was wired in '63. If you have a 200 Amp service there has been a rewire at some time of another.

    More than likely your service you have now is fine. Hard to say without knowing the square footage of the house and everything you have, but more than likely it is. You don't figure service size by just adding things together. You have to do load calculations. (example: you have 3 welding receptacles in your shop, in case you move the welder, but you're not going to use them ALL at the same time. Same with your 120v plugs. They are for convienance)
     
  18. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Posts:
    2,217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC Canada
    According to the specs, that welder is fine on a 20A circuit & #12 wire. The red 2-wire Romex is perfect (usually used for 240V baseboards) Save the #6/3 for a sub-panel feeder instead.
     

Share This Page