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Gearing questions(4/23 What a Deal on a D60 and 14FF)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by lectric80, Apr 11, 2007.

  1. lectric80

    lectric80 3/4 ton status

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    Ok so I know this will start a big thread, but I want some opinions.

    My K-5 is more of a DD than a trail rig. It goes off the pavement, but it is not for running Moab. It is currently equiped with 3.08's, and a turbo 350. I plan on putting a 700r4 into it, but it is already struggling to turn the 33's that are on it now. What I want to know is how much of a benefit am I going to get by going to 3.73 or 4.11 gears. Money is not really the concern, but drivability is, and I want this thing to be able to move when I step on the throttle, instead of getting blown away by a Prius. The 350 is from Goodwrench and has plenty of power, but the low gearing is real struggle for the TH350 to turn with the tires. Just looking for opinions, as it will be a little while before I do this project, but I want to start getting the gears in now.

    I will be adding new questions as they occur to me and will update the thread title, so check back often all you gurus.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2007
  2. mr.smartass

    mr.smartass 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Are you sticking with the 33's? Just depends on if you're going up in tire size, and when you decide to change to the 700r4.
     
  3. barneybasher1010

    barneybasher1010 1/2 ton status

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    I had 33s and 3.08 gears and it was a dog, went to 4.10 and now it is 100% better.
     
  4. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    Just a thought, but maybe look past regearing 1/2-ton axles and get 3/4-tons (or 1-tons) since many have 3.73 or 4.10 already. Getting married to fancy 6-bolt wheels and 15" tires seems to be stumbling block for many folks later on.
     
  5. obijuan

    obijuan 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    i had 35's and 308s. it was a turd, everywhere. slow as hell off the line and couldnt seem to make it past 70mph struggling. i think that was just the truck itself. i have a 350/700 with 4.56 and its fast off the line and criuses 65 pretty nicely. if you are keeping with 33s i would get 3/4 with 411 because a new to you set of axles will cost well under regearing will. i have yet to because i got one helluva deal from MuddinManny here off Ck5 they are direct bolt on swaps just get new wheels. 15 rims can fit pretty easily. maybe slight minor mods. pony up the membership fee and your truck will thank you so much. most of these topics are being discussed on the first few pages.
     
  6. lectric80

    lectric80 3/4 ton status

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    I haven't decided for certain. I have been thinking of doing a 4" lift then moving up to the 35's, but that would be later in my future. The main reason I am asking is my brother in law knows where a set of 3.73 axles is, that I could pick up for around 150 for both. I wouldn't mind ditching the 6 bolt but haven't decided.

    And I plan on ponying up the membership fee next week.
     
  7. lectric80

    lectric80 3/4 ton status

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    Ok so a new "issue" came up when going through the Blazer today. It still has the original owners manual, as well as warranty and the build sticker. It shows a Locking Differential. I initially assumed that was just referring to the locking hubs on the front end, but now I am not as certain. Can any of the gurus here tell me if this is truly referring to a locking differential, or if it only means that it has locking hubs?

    If it is a true locked rear end, I don't want to switch it out with a non-locking one, and it may be worth it to re-gear this differential. If that is the case then I may just try to find a D60 for the front with 4.10's in it.

    I only bought the beast a couple of weeks ago, and haven't gone through everything on it yet so I am still learning here.
     
  8. 87BrnRsd

    87BrnRsd 1/2 ton status

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    Your refering to the factory govlock locker. It has earned the nickname of "govbomb" because of its high rate of failure with larger than stock tires. The option code for it is G80. A D60 front is a lot of money. Your better off upgrading the rear first. If your looking to go that route, a 14 bolt rear axle can be found with a good gear ratio for around $150-$200. Then just regear the front to match. If you dont want to do that, just regear your axles now and it will solve your acceleration problem. Thing is, if you decide to get bigger tires and start to fourwheel harder, then you may break something in the stock axles (especially rear in this case).
    -Harrison
     
  9. 1977k5

    1977k5 3/4 ton status Vendor

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    The "locking differential" you are talking about is a code G80 "Gov-Lok". Its generally considered weak and easily breakable but can work well with stock sized tires.

    This "locking differential" has nothing to do with the locking hubs you may or may not have up front.
     
  10. lectric80

    lectric80 3/4 ton status

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    Well that answers that question. The current rear may work ok for now with the 33's but I don't want to put 35's on if it possibly going to leave me stranded on the trail. It sounds like it may be a bad idea to go with the 4.10 with this locker as well. Spinning those tires may cause failure which could leave me in a bad situation.

    Of course I may just see if the 12 bolt that I have a line on is in good condition and replace the rear with the new to me rear with 4.10 already ready to go. Don't know if I can afford new tires and wheels right now. Need to replace springs and shocks at the same time as the axles so that is priority.

    Now the next question since it was brought up. What is the difference between the axles I have now and the 3/4 ton axles? Expecially the front axle as that seems to be the weak point in the setup. After reading a large portion of MuddinManny's build, I don't think I can justify the D60 but I also don't want a weak link in the front as that is what will get me out of most places I go. I know everyone has their own opinion on what works best, but this isn't going to be a rock crawler or mudder, just a beast to two the trailer and go where I want, when I want.

    My goal is to get as much good information as I can to make an educated decision on how to build this for what I want. Too many city boys around here with huge wheels and trucks that wouldn't see a gravel road, let alone actually get into a position that might scratch their precious toy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2007
  11. 87BrnRsd

    87BrnRsd 1/2 ton status

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    The main difference between what you have now and a 3/4 ton setup is the rear axle. Most people running 3/4 setups are running 14ff rear axles. Your current rear is a sf...meaning semi floating. With this design the axle shafts are held in place by c-clips. If you happen to break an axle shaft, the shaft separates itself from the axle and works its way out. This means that the whole tire assembly comes off (not good while attempting a hill climb or something like that). The 14 bolt full floating rear axle is much bigger than your current rear. The ring gear is 2" bigger, and the axle shafts are much larger. This axle has been called "indestructable" by most people because of its brute strength. You can beat on it all day and not worry about breaking it. And since its a full floating rear, the axle shaft bolts to the hub. If you happen to break an axle shaft with a full floating rear end, you dont lose the tire...it stays on, you just lose the power to that side.

    Concerning the front, there really isnt much difference between a 3/4 ton D44 or 10 bolt and a 1/2 ton D44 or 10 bolt. The only real difference is that the hub is slightly larger, the brake rotors are slightly larger, and they have 8 lug nuts instead of 6. Running 35's will work ok on this setup. If you dont wheel it really hard in the rocks, and dont add a locker it should work just fine. Usually the first thing to break will be a u-joint which is pretty easy to replace. Im currently running 37's and a locker in my front 3/4 ton 10 bolt. I have blown up a hub, but I also carry spare axle shafts with me since I do wheel it kind of hard. Overall, I think youll be fine with a 3/4 ton front axle. The reason why the front alxe is a weak spot is because it has the added weight of the motor directly over it, and it also needs to be able to turn which also adds stress.

    BTW- You can convert your 1/2 ton front alxe into a 3/4 ton by swapping your hubs, rotors, and brake backing plates with ones from a 3/4 ton donor.
    -Harrison
     
  12. lectric80

    lectric80 3/4 ton status

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    Well the problem with converting to the 3/4 ton gear would be that I need to regear to get the 4.10's into it. But, if I can find a set of 3/4 ton axles (front/rear) that have 4.10's in them, I can just go through them replace bearings and seals then mount them up.

    This is why I joined this site is that there is so much info available. Now I just need to find me a set then buy new tires and wheels to go for the 8 lug pattern.

    Will the 3/4 ton axles still mount 15" wheels or would I have to go with 16's to clear the brake assemblies?
     
  13. obijuan

    obijuan 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    theyll fit with good backspacing or a little caliper ginding.
     
  14. 87BrnRsd

    87BrnRsd 1/2 ton status

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    Yes, the 3/4 ton gear will fit under your 15" rims. You will however has to take an angle grinder to the top of the front brake calipers to clearance them. You dont have to take off much. Just spray paint the calipers with some bright paint, mount the wheel and spin it, then remover the wheel and grind the areas where the paint is rubbed off. Pretty easy.
    -Harrison
     
  15. lectric80

    lectric80 3/4 ton status

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    Well that about covers everything I had for now. Since I am going to go with finding a decent set of 3/4 axles, and will have to buy new wheels I might as well get the 16" wheels instead of having to grind down the calipers. Seems like that would be the simplest solution.

    Now the next question is how can I identify the transfer case that is in there. I have heard the slip yoke 208 and the 205, but need to identify it. Is there a quick way to know which is actually installed in the beast. I do know that it is a part time t-case with locking hubs, 79 should have been the last year of the full time, but want to identify which it is for certain.

    Thanks for all the help guys.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2007
  16. obijuan

    obijuan 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    ther should be a little metal tag on the case that says 203 205 208.
     
  17. lectric80

    lectric80 3/4 ton status

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    Thanks obijuan, I need to crawl under to attach the new speedo cable so that will be my next thing to check out. If I can find it under all the grease, that is. Poor thing definately wasn't maintained as well as it should have been. But it is definately the project I have been searching for for many years.
     
  18. obijuan

    obijuan 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    i dont know about you but i cant stand it when my rig is greasy. if i were you i would take it to the car wash and spend about 10 dollars on tirecleaner/degreaser and about 10 on high pressure rinse. blast the crap off the undercairrage and you will be a much happier mechanic. 30 years of grime is hard to get off, it may take a few tries. this will also enable you to find the leaks and identify problems easily. get up and under and inside the frame rails and above the bellhousing and everywhere you can point the water. be carefull around the motor because you dont want to blast off vacuum hoses or anything but you can still do the block and everything. then of course PICS.
     
  19. lectric80

    lectric80 3/4 ton status

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    Pics are coming if I can finally get my camera to work this weekend. Will be using the new blaster/degreaser at a good friends shop to clean it all. Just been waiting for a day that is warm enough to not make me freeze to death doing it. I know of a few leaks that I have parts coming to repair, but some will wait till I get the new axles and rear springs.
     
  20. MuddinManny

    MuddinManny Banned

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    Hey lectric,

    Welcome to CK5! You'll find most everyone here is extremely helpful and is willing to reach out and guide you as you build your rig into the dream you wanted to have. If it wasn't for the guys here, I'd of made some serious mistakes and they saved me a ton of grief!

    The best wisdom I can give you right this moment is become a paying member. I know $25.00 may not seem justifiable at first, but when you see what opens up to you, it will be the best $25.00 you ever spent! Trust me and all the others who have said it before. If you are NOT satisfied, I'll back my words by refunding you the $25.00. No questions asked.

    Welcome and thanks again for your kind words.

    Manny
     

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