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Gone too far anyway but, opinions on my crossmember...

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BadDog, Jul 6, 2003.

  1. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Take a look at the recent additions here. (at the bottom) Tell me what you think of the crossmember. Too late to do much about it now except to keep going and try it but, let me know if you think there is something that should be changed...
     
  2. tarussell

    tarussell 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    Man - that looks good ! I think you got a strong set up in the works . The only thing else might be to tie into the upper part of the "C" channel of the frame with your new brackets - kind of like the older ( 1975 and earlier ) crossmember upper brackets did .
    I really like that 45 angle bolt up section . Tom

    Maybe slot the holes on the bottom part to allow for frame distortion while the crossmember is out ???
     
  3. BIGJ

    BIGJ 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    Looks heavy duty that's for sure. I like it, and I think it's a good solution to keeping a flat belly without running a straight tube for the crossmember. What's the crossbar made out of? Any diagrams on how the t-cases will mount to the crossbar with the bushings?

    What color/brand of paint is that on the doubler.

    BIGJ
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    I like it Russ. It looks more than strong enough to support the weight of the doubler and stuff, plus it's very strong if you land on something with it.

    What size fasteners are you going to use?

    My only concern is if the fasteners shear with a big impact on a rock the crossmember may act like a big wedge forcing the frame apart, but they aren't in a classic shear position...

    I do think the 'blocks' on the side should occupy the entire inside part of the frame to help take those bolts out of shear. You could cut some mouse holes through the blocks for brake lines and electrical without hurting strength.

    Rene
     
  5. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    The original plan called for plates top to bottom. But I didn't have a piece of steel to make it with and didn't want to wait. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif It will attach with 4 G8 3/8" bolts. Should be enough I think for the frame mounts. The 45s will also be 4 x 3/8 G8, but they are not fully in shear (as you said) so that should be no problem. If needed, I can also put some bolts in the bottom lip going up (tensile) but really didn't want to have bolt heads on a rub surface... I might even go to 4 1/2 G8s on the sides, but I think that would be way over kill... not sure, that's why I'm posting... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Also, updated the visio drawing to show my idea on the mounts...
     
  6. Butch

    Butch 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    I like the looks, my concern is will your front output flange clear the crossmember tube? It looks pretty high up there especially when the engine torques. I would also round the tops of the brackets bolting to the frame so you do load the frame in a straight line possibly leading to a crack there. But that is just one dumbasses opinion /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    It's pretty close, but it should clear. BTW, it's a 1410 yoke, not a flange. My only concern is that the tube yoke is going to get very close when it swings down. If need be, I'll clearance it but cuttin away the close corner and plating it flat at an angle across the gap... Also, the 1.5" tube is only 1/2" off the 205 case. (Maybe I should make it 1/4"?) So the ears of the yoke are actually forward of the tube.

    Also remember, I have a K30 frame, the 205 is clocked up 2" and raised 1". This would not work at all with a K5 frame...

    Good idea on the rounded top.

    Thinking more about the bolts in shear, I'm thinking I may weld the bracket in on the bottom rather than have bolt heads hanging down. Anyone got more info/opinions on the bolts? 3/8 G8 bolts x 4 (per side) have a pretty high shear rating.

    What do you folks say?
    1) 3/8 G8 x 4 is plenty.
    2) 1/2 G8 x 4 will do it, but 3/8 is cutting it short.
    3) 3/8 and weld the bottom tab to the frame lip.
     
  8. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    will you be raising the motor also? FRIZZLEFRY recently did something like this with his K5. He has a 2" BL and made spacers to lift it all up and make it flush with the frame.
     
  9. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    I like overkill...and would probably choose 4 1/2" G8's in fine thread. It's not so much the extra bolt strength, it's the extra clamping force I like./forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I would also suggest hardened flat washers for those bolts. That area of the truck has some serious potential for a major rock smack...

    Tim's suggestion to chamfer any sharp edges is a very good one.

    Rene
     
  10. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    [ QUOTE ]
    will you be raising the motor also? FRIZZLEFRY recently did something like this with his K5. He has a 2" BL and made spacers to lift it all up and make it flush with the frame.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I'm considering it. Lifting the tail 1" has put the fan close to the shroud. If I go higher (and I may, because it's really tight at the case mount) then something like that may need to be done...
     
  11. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    [ QUOTE ]
    I like overkill...and would probably choose 4 1/2" G8's in fine thread. It's not so much the extra bolt strength, it's the extra clamping force I like./forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I would also suggest hardened flat washers for those bolts. That area of the truck has some serious potential for a major rock smack...

    Tim's suggestion to chamfer any sharp edges is a very good one.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I agree, clamping force is where it's at.

    And I always chamfer the edges on anything structural to 0.062r or so, but on that top edge, I used the belt sander to add a slight roll (probably a 3" radus, but tangent to the mounting surface) over the last 0.250 or so, sort of like the zero rates I made.

    Hadn't thought of the washers. Great idea. I can get some large diameter washers for the frame, and small for the 45* plates. The 45* plates shouldn't be a problem anyway with the way the forces will be distributed...
     
  12. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    7/16 or 1/2" bolt won't hurt anything, why not use them?
    I'd add a couple bolts to the lower flange of the frame rail too, that's probably not too hard to add. Maybe even after it's all in place, just drill through both pieces and bolt it up.
    Build your Doubler mount very beefy, Beck just replaced his of a similar design with a better reinforced 3/8" thick version after the 1/4" version gave up.
    You should also consider similar mounting for the TH350 foot, I like the idea of some kind of mount between the motor mounts and the t-case mount to help keep it all stable when the truck's bouncing around.
     
  13. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    Russ,

    I like that the whole tranny/t-case combo is a nice "natural" color!!

    When the time comes for me (When Tortilla Man gets off his butt and we work out the doubler deal) I am planning to leave the parts unpainted and clearcoated, or use some sort of metal-grey paint instead of orange, etc.

    Too bad that once all that pretty stuff is installed, you're going to be covering up most of it with a skidplate!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    I like it, make two and Ill try it out for you!

    I like the idea that it is one more place on the frame where you have tied the two framerails securely together. It stiffens the frame all the while doing its job. Getting the flat belly pan was why I opted to clock the NP203 upside down and the NP205 outputs up to level with input.

    Do you mind if I copy your idea someday? Im not a big fan of my crossmember! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  15. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    Stephen:
    Thanks, but I had already come to that conclusion anyway, and the cross bar mounts (45*) are already setting with 1/2" G8s. But I didn't continue due to additional clearance problems that have surfaced. And, based on Beck's experience, I may abandon the whole thing...

    1) Bolt holes for frame are too close to the shear plate to fit 1/2" bolts. I would have to grind out the welds there for them to fit at all. Doable, and not a big deal, but there are other issues. I'll come back to this if the other issues can be worked out...
    2) The 45* mount on the passenger side wound up against the 205. In order to get 3/8 clearance bottom and side; I had to eliminate the near bolt hole. So only 3 bolts there, though they are 1/2". I just don't know how I missed that in all my measuring and figuring. Working out 3 dimensional designs in open space, without a full model, it's easy to make a mistake, and I did... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    3) 1/32 here, and another 1/32 there, add some heat warpage, and there is roughly only a 5/16 gap between the doubler adapter and the cross bar. Put a 1/4 plate in there and get it perfectly placed against the adapter, and there is only a 1/16 gap left. I was worried about the 1/8" gap I had figured...

    <Sigh>
    At least there is plenty of room between the 205 and the bar. Now if I can just figure out how to build something to replace the Z bracket. I've got some ideas, but I just don't like them very well. And, it also looks like the 1/4 I thought would be plenty, is actually not enough (based on Beck's experience). So, I may just abandon this design completely. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
     
  16. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    Thanks. I kinda like it too. It's gray Hammerite. I didn't do it for the looks. The Hammerite sticks great to bare metal and it will show leaks clearly... That it looks good is just a side bene! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  17. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    Can you take some pics of these issues and post them here? I still think My setup could use this type of bracketry and could buy your pile of scrap if you abandon the idea.

    Sorry, dont mean to make you my R&D Department! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    Either way, I would like to see more of this idea - I still think its a good one if refined (in your case).
     
  18. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: Gone too far anyway, but tell me what you think...

    Mudzer:
    Copy away if you can make it work. It's not a completely original design anyway. It's modified from a design I've seen on a few different areas, though not exactly like this. I think MOO does something like this for the shock mounts???

    I'll try to get some installed pics later today. But it's going to be tough to make out much, my camera doesn't focus very well up close since my son dropped it in Moab... /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif At least I left it bolted up so that if I wanted to measure and think it would be setting ready. Right now I'm too frustrated with it to do much...

    As for selling you the bits if I abandon it. That would be fine, you can have it for shipping if it comes to that. However, I don't know if it would work on a K5 frame since it is roughly 2" shorter. You could look at the dimensions on the drawing and find out I guess...
     

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