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Got the 454 started tonight!!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Cornfield creations, Oct 25, 2005.

  1. Cornfield creations

    Cornfield creations 1/2 ton status

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    Finally after several months in anticipation the 454 is finally started. Ran into a small problem we are trying to figure out and make sure we haven't overlooked. It runs, but won't idle. Only runs at half throttle. We have the disributor pointing at number 1 on TDC, in order to make it fire decent we had the turn the distributor counter clockwise until it bumps the intake. We triple checked all wires and all other connections and finally gave up on it tonight. Any tips on what it could be?
     
  2. xpndbl3

    xpndbl3 1/2 ton status

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    sounds like you have a timing issue. make sure you time it with the computer advance wire disconnected. also make sure that you have the firing order correct.
     
  3. thor

    thor 1/2 ton status

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    What does the timing light say?
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Sounds like the distributor is off by a tooth or two.


    Rene
     
  5. Beast388

    Beast388 1/2 ton status

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    It definately sounds like a timing issue. Dead time it to find when the #1 cylinder should be firing and set up the distributor and spark plug wires from there. You may need to move the distributor gear a few teeth to get the rotor pointing at #1 on the cap. :wink1:
     
  6. thor

    thor 1/2 ton status

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    Or move the wires over one spot....
     
  7. Cornfield creations

    Cornfield creations 1/2 ton status

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    We are gonna try tonight to set up back up, we tried it 1 tooth retarded and 1 tooth advanced on the distributor. We are gonna put it on cylinder 1, TDC, and try it with the choke on, it is kinda cold outside so we thought maybe fuel related? Its a 650 holley 4bbl. Maybe play with the carb some, but I still have a feeling its mainly in the timing. Hopefully we can keep it running long enough to get the timing light on. We had it running for a while half throttle, not the smoothest, but I was on the passenger side and couldn't get out to get the timing light on it. Thanks for the input guys! I am gonna try a few things tonight and let write it up later. Thanks!
     
  8. Cornfield creations

    Cornfield creations 1/2 ton status

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    Ok heres the story for the night. We got the engine timing close I believe, we went back to our original placing and feels the best so we left it. The problem we are facing is... We get it started, runs good between 2000-5000 rpms. Runs smooth, but when we back it off and it gets down to about 1000 rpms, it totally just dies off. I mean there is no babying it, no tappin to throttle or holding wide open, it flat out dies. We thought maybe the fuel pump, tested it works great, switched carbs and put one on there that was off a great running truck, so we know its not the carb, we thought maybe an intake gasket didn't seal very good, so we sprayed carb cleaner around there while holding steady throttle to so if it bogs down or speeds up.

    Thats as far as we got till it threw the alt. belt. Put a different belt on and then it woudln't crank because of the starter button we have on the truck an eyelet came off of the wire on the starter.

    So does anyone have any idea or run into this before? Any possibilites?
     
  9. HillJackCustoms

    HillJackCustoms Registered Member

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    where at in indiana do you live... Im from elkhart area... Check vaccum and gasket around carb too... Make sure u have the right jets, float bowl set...
     
  10. Cornfield creations

    Cornfield creations 1/2 ton status

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    I'm in Jasper

    Well the first carb was a holley that was jetted to like a 647 or so. It was on a madly built 350. We took that carb off and put on an edelbrock 650, and it actually ran better than the holley. But if it was running good at higher RPMS would that cause it to die at low RPMS?

    Would a 650cfm be too small for a 454. I was always told that a slightly smaller carb would build better low end torque but would restrict on higher RPMS. Or does it need like a 750cfm?
     
  11. kgblazerfive

    kgblazerfive keymaster Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    650 will run a 454 if the carb was running a other motor then why is it not running this one sounds like you still have a timing issue.
     
  12. Cornfield creations

    Cornfield creations 1/2 ton status

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    Would it be possible that an intake leak may cause this? The i know the timing isn't exact but it runs pretty smooth with no popping or cracking at higher rpms. We are throwing around the idea of the intake. We put a new edelbrock performer intake on it. My buddy said when he put it on though to him it didn't seem like it went down all the way. Again when we did the carb cleaner test around the gasket it never revved up or down.

    Could the seals on top of the lifter valley cause this? Put silicon on the rails instead of the rubber gaskets.

    Double check on all of the vacuums here
    Plugged the vaccum advance. Plugged the PCV, and the booster is hooked up. Am I missing anything?

    Just throwing ideas around to see if there are any possibilities that we may have overlooked.
     
  13. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

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    The first thing you should do is put a timing light on it and get the timing set to spec. Once that is done and the problem still exists then you can troubleshoot farther. Maybe it runs fine at higher RPMs because the timing is advancing itself into the proper range.

    Ira
     
  14. steve_kibbe

    steve_kibbe 1/2 ton status

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    Have you checked out the internals of the distributor? Something might be sticking there causing the timing to be whack :confused:
     
  15. Cornfield creations

    Cornfield creations 1/2 ton status

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    It's possible to get a timing light on it at higher rpms isn't it? I mean the lowest rpm to keep it running, myabe like 2000 rpms. Or is it only at idle?

    Yeah the internals are good on the distributor, new rotor, cap, new control module.
     
  16. kgblazerfive

    kgblazerfive keymaster Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    You can put a timing light on it at any RPM just make sure you rmark is good and bright or dark depending on the color of your balencer.
     
  17. BAJA_BLAZER

    BAJA_BLAZER 1/2 ton status Author

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    Put a vacuum gauge on it and that will tell you if you have an intake leak. Something that no one has mentioned and that could cause the symptoms you describe is improper valve adjustment. If to tight it won’t run a low RPM’s. :doah:
     
  18. HillJackCustoms

    HillJackCustoms Registered Member

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    i'd check valves too. I totally forgot about that... my roundie round car had that problem, valves were screwy. put a rag on the end of the exhaust tip, sucked it in.. thats bad..
     
  19. Cornfield creations

    Cornfield creations 1/2 ton status

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    We tried a whole bunch of stuff thursday night and still have the same problem. Switched carbs again because there was a vacuum leak on the edelbrock that we were unsure about, but it ran better with the edelbrock rather than the holley which we started out on, and is now back on it. There is a little pinhole in the EGR blockoff plate that has threads in it, but are unsure if it was a hole all the way through the plate. We called edelbrock and they said it sounds like a leak at the base of the carbs and it should have a square bore adaptor plate with two gaskets, we had the plate on their, and pulled it off thinking a gasket was leaking.

    The same thing.

    We are totally out of ideas except to pull the intake off again and check it.

    He said it has oval port heads, 77 or 78 block can't remember, would that be a mark IV? I believe he said he put oval port gasket's in there. If they had square port gasket's it would leak internally.

    I wonder if the intake is oval port. He bought the intake and put it on, so I am unsure about that part. That would matter if it was wouldn't it?
     
  20. Cornfield creations

    Cornfield creations 1/2 ton status

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    UPDATE!


    We got her to idle tonight. We started it up just to hear it for giggles. I held the throttle open and played with the timing light. I throttled it down and noticed right before it died the light quit. It wasn't getting any spark at lower throttle. So we put another distributer together with all the extra ones laying around. Put it in and it idled.

    Thanks everyone for the help you provided!
     

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