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Gotta love the labor Union's

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by newyorkin, Dec 19, 2005.

  1. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Actually, I think I hate them... BRB, I know you'll love this...

    NYC Transit workers strike looming at 12:01am 12/21/05.


    I've never had a job where my health benefits were 100% covered and I didn't have to pay into them. I can't even find a degree-job with a pension plan that I don't have to manage and cut out of my paycheck.

    So if they get what they want, my train ticket will be jacked yet again, and if they strike, I'll have to figure out my own way to work through crazy vehicle restrictions and traffic.

    And in the busiest season of the year, the busiest days of the season, they're going to bring the city to a retail halt, and want more money/expenses.

    The mayor has reminded the union it's illegal for them to strike, and has warned about fines for strikers. A court has also issued an injunction to stop a strike.
    In the 80's they went on strike, the city levied enormous fines on the union (it's illegal for transit workers to strike because of the effect it will have on the economy/Emergency response infrastructure, etc).

    Former mayor Ed Koch was on Bloomberg radio friday night talking about this, and said the fines economically crippled the union, and prevented another strike until the memory of it wore off the transit workers minds...

    Unions are fine and all if they actually do something for you against an unjust employer, but the TWU in NYC is being unreasonable (IMO)...
     
  2. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Unions...........

    I just sat back and re-read what I wrote before I hit the reply button, and realized that what I wanted to say would probably hurt some butts.......

    Anyhow, I work for a non-union outfit that takes good care of it's workers, from pension to benefits to flex days to good wages. That's good enough for me.
     
  3. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    BTW, nice to see you, Ratch.

















    I love you, man!!!! :rotfl:
     
  4. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    I love you too...:D :D Watch out, we're gonna see Corey's grumpy arse come in threatening hugs in a minute... :haha: :haha:
     
  5. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    This is MUCH better than last week. Heck, I only got 6 PMs today. I'm glad you decided to stick around, my friend. :thumb:

    Anyhow, back to the goddam unions......
     
  6. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    Makes you wonder how much some of the unreasonable labor unions are enabling, or fueling, the whole illegal immigration problem.
     
  7. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    I have yet to be on a job site where the unions made the job go faster, instead of slower. I have even kicked union people off my job sites when they did not perform. Boy, did that raise a stink!!! The only reason I got away with it was the client I was building for-Wal Mart. There ain't a union big enough in the whole USA that can tangle with that gorilla!!!
     
  8. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    The unions can go fornicate themselves with napalm........................
     
  9. B_to_C

    B_to_C 1/2 ton status Author

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    :doah: :doah: :doah:

    *My liberal education and experiences speaking*

    Where does this thought come from? Are you saying that because American blue collar workers are demanding livable wages that businesses will look to "illegals" to get their low cost of labor? Thereby fuleing the "immigration problem?" But one might say "well this doesn't have to do with wages it has to do with healthcare." Personally I don't know the facts about the NYC unions negotiations but I do have some personal experience I'de like to share.

    I'm part of a union, the UFCW local 7. I work for a company -Safeway. Up until the latest contract all healthcare for all union members was completely covered by the company. As we all know helathcare costs have been skyrocketing, along with prices for most everything else. The company's said "Hey, wait a second, this labor cost is starting to cut into our bottom line, we have to do something about it" Healthcare is an easy solution: the company stops covering most or all of the cost and puts it on the employee to handle it. Fwef, the company was saved and profits returned.


    But wait, the profitability of the company may not be all that matters. :eek1:

    I don't use the healthcare that safeway offers because I get mine through my liberal school who believes everyone should be covered by some form of healthcare :eek1: Does my healthcare suck? yes. But will it save my ass if I have a serious accident or illness? probably. Now let's take on of my co-workers for an example...
    [I had this whole example written out and then decided it was unnecesarry because you guys don't get emotional over people who are "sucking" from the economy and would probably generealize her and put her down with steretypic slang designed to dehuminize her:crazy:]

    ANYWAYS, wth was my point?

    Oh yea, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Wait a second... THAT seems like dehuminizing slang for some people who are trying to do the best for their family the only way they know how. I know if I was in their situation I would do the same thing if it was my only option to bring me and my family out of poverty. PLUS what is the problem with illegal immigrants anyways?

    Do you not like the way they look? The language they speak? Their culture? Or maybe it's the way they rape and pillage our wives and daughters while spreading horrible diseases through the countryside all while not carrying insurance! :rolleyes:

    Hmmm, a show of hands please from all the people that knew we took HALF of mexico's territory to create our "great southwest" :p:

    Illegal settlers?

    Anyways, all that aside, cheap labor IS neccesarry for capitalism to work. So why not have "illegals" be that source? Would you rather it be your "arian brotherhood" that is forced to work for less than a living wage? :screwy:


    Ok, go ahead and tear me apart :D
     
  10. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.
     
  11. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    Wow, its painfully aparent you live in Colorado and not a border state. We did not "take" the southwest, we bought it for $15 million, the same as the Louisiana purchase. Yes we forced them to sell it to us but A) only 1% of mexico's population inhabited that entire area anyway and B) white settlers outnumbered mexicans drastically at that time. We dont have labor unions down here so I really dont give a rats ass what they do, but from what I've read about I dont like them.
     
  12. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    Ha, that was strange. I was going to post, then changed my mind. I come back to see what happened, and apparenty I posted. :screwy:
     
  13. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    sometimes unions are good, sometimes they kill the company. i worked for electrolux when they diecided to move to mexico, the union was killing them. after the annoucement that they were seriously thinking about it, the state, city and the union tried to cut a deal with them building a new building, free of taxes for like 10 years or something like that and some other small things. when they declined, the governor, mayor and union said that they will try harder next time. well guess what, THERE IS NO NEXT TIME. 2700 jobs down the ****ter, 1/3 the population of the county. this also effected about 20 other companys that are suppling parts to elextrolux. some of the companys are staying here are shipping the parts to mexico, others are moving to texas or somewhere else close. this union is a total joke, they won't help anyone or do anything to help their own union members.

    the only thing i got from this union was $18 taken out of my paycheck every month, not much, but it wasn't worth one penny.
     
  14. nc87k5

    nc87k5 3/4 ton status

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    luckily NC is a right to work state and does not require you to be part of a union to have a job. I almost got a job with the local phone company but decided partly not to because they were unionized. I don't have anything personally against a union, but feel a man should be able to talk it out with upper management if he has a problem instead of getting someone else to do his talking for him.


    on a side note, Corey will be in here stating a$$ grabbing is optional.
     
  15. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    2 day's pay in fines for every 1 day of strike for every striking worker...
    4 people per car MINIMUM or you get turned around by NYPD (and that's AFTER battling through horrendous traffic)...
    4 people per taxicab...
    Not a good time to be in NYC.

    We in the Philadelphia area have had the same sort of problems with the TWU. Seems like every 2-3 years the union threatens to strike if they don't get what they want. Couple years ago, the Local president was caught on camera assaulting a reporter from another network for asking him pressing questions, like "Why do you feel you're entitled to free healthcare when everyone else in the country who is lucky enough to have healthcare has to pay into it?"
    My local school district's teachers went on strike this year, too. Went the entire time they're allowed to, without any compromise on the issues. They get fully-paid healthcare, too. You shoulda heard the screams when the school board canceled their health coverage while they were striking... they actually expected to still have coverage while they weren't working.

    My personal conclusion after reading about this happening more and more, is that the unions (all of them, not just transit and teachers) that have these sweet contracts know what a steal they're getting, and are willing to fight to keep their good deals. An admirable concept I suppose, but not when their work-stoppage actions cripple an entire city, or f**k-up children's education.
    I could see their worth in the days of the robber-barons, the "company store", the days before OSHA, EEOC, etc... but not so much anymore.
     
  16. bobalob

    bobalob 1/2 ton status

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    It seems unions these days are just redundant in the safety and worker protections they stress. Admittedly I don't know much about unions but it seems to be one more beauracratic, corrupt entity that operates on political financial blackmail:( .
     
  17. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    My take on unions:

    They have been necessary in the past, are necessary now, and will most likely be necessary in the future. Now before some dolt starts calling me a lib/Dem/wacko let us take a look at the real world.

    Why did unions come about? The "workers" had enough of working for low wages, in dangerous condition only to be fired at the drop of a hat. While at the same time the "bosses" live in a luxury that is amazing even today. Similarities to today; the "bosses" now earn a wage of many times that of the "workers". Capitalism you say. I agree 100% and it is the same capitalistic drive that causes the "workers" to want to make as much as they are able to as well. Shutting down a city, do it- all of a sudden those who depend on what ever the "product" is realize that it is more valuable than what they have been paying. If the oil companies can do it, than why not the common man.

    Do unions have problems? Absolutely!

    They are almost always aligned with lib/Dem politicians. Why? Remember what Reagan did to the ATC union in the 80s? Also, the more traditional reason is, when unions were formed they were aligned with Communists. This attitude was obvious when a union (both the local and the national) that I was a member of, worked to defeat Republicans who were responsible for bringing more work into our plant. (a defense contractor)

    Next reason is that union membership has fallen, and the unions no longer wield the power they once did. This makes the leadership nervous, and they want to retain every member possible. The problem with this is the deadbeats get defended with the same vigor that should be reserved for the best employees.

    Also, partly due to declining membership, is the combining of unions. Not just individual "locals", but whole unions. This leads to a dilution of trade unions and a boost to labor unions.

    Last one that comes to mind immediately is corruption. Most of us know the scandals involving the Teamsters and the mob. There are many other examples if you choose to look.

    Last note, if you think you can just "talk things out with the management" you have never had to deal with the bureaucracy of a large corporation. It is nothing like working for a small company.

    These are my experiences. I've worked for union & non-union large corporations, as well as union & non-union family owned companies, and non-union medium sized companies.
     
  18. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Some valid points you make, but I would disagree with this one. My monthly train ticket has gone up twice, by almost 40%, in the last 3 years, more than any other period, and the subway fare has gone up 33% in the last 1.5 years. I already think it's barely reasonable for the poor quality and reliability. The MTA ("Employer" they're haggling with) was moving to have new employees contribute to some of their own health and retirement expenses.

    But regarding shutting down the city by strike; there's a realistic possibility that people can die from this strike if it goes on for more than another day. People who need medical treatments who aren't able to be closer to a hospital, vehicle traffic/pedestrian accidents from the extreme increase in both, inability of law enforcement to get from point A to point B efficiently if at all (most are already working over 12 hour shifts to cover), etc. There are people trying to leave New York who can't get to airports right now because the taxi and livery system is maxed. Most of the communities are looking out for the needs of people in dramatic situations, but the union can't count on goodwill coming to the rescue so they can make their point.
    The transit system is a base infrastructure component for the city, the affected functions of the city are innumerable. It's not like a convenience people will start to realize they haven't appreciated. This isn't like a Hotel workers strike or a plumbing union strike.

    Additionally, it's not ok to justify one poor behavior with another.


    The Mayor, who had the mayoral salary changed to $1 when he took office, is in a unique position to fine the union up the wazoo. A transit workers strike is against the law, unlike a construction workers strike, etc. That means the employees can legally be docked pay (the MTA is docking 2 days pay for every employee who strikes' one day off the job), and the city can fine the union for ordering the strike.
    It's going to be a political mess...I'm thinking Bloomberg is glad he's on his second term already.
     
  19. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Oh no. By all means carry on. If You two lesser of a man types feel the need to swap spit then by all means carry on with your homosexual ways.


    :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
     
  20. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    I don't blame the illegal immigrants for the problem. I blame the businesses that are hiring them. I was merely speaking to what the motivations might be for hiring illegal immigrants.

    I don't remember including any of this in my original post: "Do you not like the way they look? The language they speak? Their culture? Or maybe it's the way they rape and pillage our wives and daughters while spreading horrible diseases through the countryside all while not carrying insurance! :rolleyes:" I don't like that they are here illegally.

    I want honest Americans and immigrants to have those low paying jobs. What is a "living wage" anyways. Is it better that my "arian brotherhood" or any other Americal or LEGAL immigrant is unemployed, or working at less than a "living wage" (which is a relative term anyways)?

    Mexico "took" the southwest from Spain, who took it from the native americans. So what?

    But will it save my ass if I have a serious accident or illness? probably. If that was the case an emergency room will not refuse treatment. I've never heard of a serious accident where the ambulance left someone lay dieing. And who is it that you think pays for your health care, whether we are talking about through Safeway or CU?
     

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