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Government control of your life- WHERE SHOULD WE DRAW THE LINE?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Can Can, May 28, 2004.

  1. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I was just reading through some of the replies to Z3PR's post about seatbelts, and was amazed at the amount of anti-government/anti-law comments made. Crap, some of you sound like you belong to militias just waiting for your chance to assassinate elected officials.... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    So, for you guys who feel that the government has too much say in your life, her's a question for you-

    Where should the line be drawn when it comes to personal freedom-of-choice safety-wise?

    Do you guys think that the average citizen needs a little help protecting himself from his own stupidity? How does your answer change when you personally are affected by said stupidity?

    Case in point: Up here we have a very active backcountry adventure thing going on. If someone gets injured while, say, climbing a mountain, he pays the entire bill for his extraction/rescue. However, our publicly-finded health care system still pays his medical bills. What's your opinion on something like that?

    [/can of worms] /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
     
  2. ugly_blazer

    ugly_blazer 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    However, our publicly-finded health care system still pays his medical bills.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Just another thing that the government has done to give itself more power. How? It allows them to tax everyone more. I think that one of the major problems we have in this country is more and more people are not taking responsibilty for their actions. Anytime a child does something wrong, why do the parents try to blame the school? I thought that parents were supposed to raise their children, teach them right from wrong, and discipline them... oh, wait... NO, the government won't let parents raise their kids the way that they want!!! No wonder parents blame someone else. The government won't let them raise their own children! How can a parent be blamed for the actions of a child when the government has told the parents what they can/can't do, it seems only logical to blame the government, schools, someone else...

    As stated in the seatbelt post by many people - I wear mine so that someone doesn't crash into me or cut me off - so is no seatbelt really the problem? Why not fix the problem at it's source - ignorant drivers. Life today has become so "instant" with cell phones, computers, emails, and all of the other technology that we have now. One thing that can not be instant is traveling from one place to another, but people are so used to "instant" that they sure try their best to get there "instanly" and in the meantime lose touch with reality - and drive like "pinheads" as stated by someone earlier. Because of these "pinheads" the government feels as if they need to step in and make laws to prevent "pinheads" from harming others.

    I don't think that there are any laws that can be passed to fix today's society. More government is not the answer. People need to change the way that they behave.
     
  3. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Good point. But who's gonna be responsible for ensuring that stupid people smarten up? How do we force them to behave and how do we keep them from misbehaving again?

    /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    But back to my question- When is it okay for the government to force people to protect themselves from potentially injurious situations?
     
  4. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Good point. But who's gonna be responsible for ensuring that stupid people smarten up? How do we force them to behave and how do we keep them from misbehaving again?

    /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    But back to my question- When is it okay for the government to force people to protect themselves from potentially injurious situations?

    [/ QUOTE ] I don't know where to draw the line. But I do know I wouldn't like it if the goverment told me I could only wheel on approved trails because they've determed that other trails are to dangerous for John Q. Public. I doubt that is a going to be a reality, but it's just a thought on government controle.
     
  5. shewheeler

    shewheeler 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Good point. But who's gonna be responsible for ensuring that stupid people smarten up? How do we force them to behave and how do we keep them from misbehaving again?

    /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    But back to my question- When is it okay for the government to force people to protect themselves from potentially injurious situations?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You can't regulate common sense. Didn't someone mention "thinning of the herd" in that other thread? /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  6. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    yeah well survival of the fittest is a real thing no matter what creationists think, but the way modern society is going the weakest are getting to mix into the "herd" and thats the beginning of the end for a species.
     
  7. ugly_blazer

    ugly_blazer 1/2 ton status

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    I don't feel that we really have many stupid people in our country, they are more lazy than anything and have become dependent on always having someone there to do everything for them. We should not have to force adults to behave, they should be willing to do it on their own.

    As for your actual question, I don't think that the government should have to force us to protect ourselves from others, and therefore no line would have to be drawn. Since I think that no line should have to exist, I can not say where I think it should be drawn.
     
  8. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You can't regulate common sense.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Unfortunately, you're right. However, given enough time and a really tough baseball bat, I feel that I could knock some common sense into some of the idiots out there...... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    It's funny that nobody has yet to suggest the legalization of "street justice" without fear of legal ramifications. I think that the introduction of such a system would dramatically cut down the frequency of public stupidity.....
     
  9. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    As for your actual question, I don't think that the government should have to force us to protect ourselves from others

    [/ QUOTE ]

    WOW!!! That's a pretty silly thing to say, don't you think?

    So you're saying that we should eliminate every law out there that might save me from someone else's dangerous act, deliberate or not? /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    You paint a scary picture, my friend...... /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif
     
  10. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    I still think stupid people should be forced to where a sign that says "stupid" that way they can be regulated better /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
     
  11. SS66

    SS66 1/2 ton status

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    The line was drawn many years ago. Its called the Constitution. The goverment crossed this line long before I was even born with their bullshit laws. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  12. ugly_blazer

    ugly_blazer 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    As for your actual question, I don't think that the government should have to force us to protect ourselves from others

    [/ QUOTE ]

    WOW!!! That's a pretty silly thing to say, don't you think?

    So you're saying that we should eliminate every law out there that might save me from someone else's dangerous act, deliberate or not? /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    You paint a scary picture, my friend...... /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe you took it the wrong way, that is not what I was saying. What I meant by saying "I don't think that the government should have to force us to protect ourselves from others" is that it is ridiculous how others act that make the government feel that it is necessary to create laws to "protect the people from the idiots". There should be no idiots. The government should not be put into this situation in the first place.


    "I don't think that the government should have to force us to protect ourselves from others" = The condition should not exist where our society is so pathetic that we must be forced to protect ourselves from others.
     
  13. ugly_blazer

    ugly_blazer 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The line was drawn many years ago. Its called the Constitution. The goverment crossed this line long before I was even born with their bullshit laws. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ya, what he said! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    "I don't think that the government should have to force us to protect ourselves from others" = The condition should not exist where our society is so pathetic that we must be forced to protect ourselves from others.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Thats a great ideal /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Lets start by getting rid of all those baggage checkers at the airports cause that is just so pathetic /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  15. tomseviltwin

    tomseviltwin 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    As for your actual question, I don't think that the government should have to force us to protect ourselves from others

    [/ QUOTE ]

    WOW!!! That's a pretty silly thing to say, don't you think?

    So you're saying that we should eliminate every law out there that might save me from someone else's dangerous act, deliberate or not? /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    You paint a scary picture, my friend...... /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]



    I think that we should eliminate the laws that save us from ourselves.
     
  16. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    While we're at it we should start getting rid of the simple things like mandatory hardhat usage on construction sites, too...... /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    See, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about when I refer to "the line". There are many laws that you might take for granted yet follow every day, while many choose not to and put you and I at risk.

    So there IS indeed a line somewhere out there for each and every one of us. The alternative is a society ruled by chaos and whim. Like I said- scary!!!
     
  17. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Holy crap, I should've replied when I first read this post, before there were a dozen replies...


    If everyone had common sense and always did things right all the time, government influence would be drastically reduced... People fork up, nnoone knows when they will, so the gubberment preps for it by forcing everyone to be safe...







    Did I sidestep that?
     
  18. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Well, you kind of stated the obvious, Ratch. I guess what I'm looking for is someone who is AGAINST stuff like seatbelt laws and such to explain where exactly the Gov't "meddling" should stop and why, other than "It's none of their business". The way I see it, somewhere along the line it BECAME their business for whatever reason, thus the laws were put into place.
     
  19. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I like the idea of using the constitution as a basis, but there is a LOT of gray area when it comes to constitutional issues. It's obviously still open to interpretation, thats obvious.

    I don't like laws that limit my freedoms because of the ignorance/stupidity/lack of concern exhibited by others. For instance? I hate no turn on red signs. What kind of "law" is that? People are too stupid to go the speed limit, or too stupid not to pull out in front of moving vehicles, the 95% of the public that DOESN'T create a problem shouldn't suffer because of the 5%.

    The backcountry thing cracks me up. I always think about this when I see lost people getting rescued, knowing they are going to get charged. Personally I think it would be great if you end up being out longer than expected, they find you, land the $10,000 an hour helicopter next to you (made that number up, but no doubt powered by public funds) and you tell them you didn't ASK to be rescued, so they can stuff it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Why do we need to babysit people? Just as a for instance, anyone ever noticed how many signs we have in this country? It's sad! Unfortunately, when you try to babysit the entire population, you end up with a severe lack of common sense on a massive scale, or lack of people using it.

    Being affected by said stupidity is a tough one. Another for instance, if you speed, you are (whether intentionally or not) putting others at risk. Think about it. It's not even given a second thought by most (judging by the posted/driven speeds on local roads) but I guarantee going 80 in a 60, (or 40 through a neighborhood thats 25MPH) if something catastrophic happens, and you are around other vehicles or pedestrians, the chances of your eagerness impacting someone elses life increases exponentially.

    I'm probably not qualified to actually answer this thread, as I don't see government intrusion into my life being a major problem. Sure there are things I don't agree with, but that will always be the case. I certainly think there are stupid laws out there, way too many, but I'm not sure that is government intrusion into your life...requiring a seatbelt, setting speed limits, airport security, all seem a bit different to me than a gov. agent kicking down my door with no warrant, or tapping my phone lines, etc.

    Just a long rambling post, I can see already there are plenty of reasons to disagree with it. No worries. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  20. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    I don't think its the laws that people have a problem with. I think it's more in the way people see the laws. For example one may see the law from a liberal or conservitive point of view and then there are those who see it though an anti goverment point of view /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     

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