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*GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part THREE - ***UPDATED***

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by KRAZIE87K5, May 15, 2002.

  1. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    So I try to pull the trans from under the truck (we left it jacked up against the block last night...) only to get it mostly down, remove the bellhousing, and then have it slide off the trans jack, fall on its side, and dump about 2 quarts of 80-90 wt. oil down the driveway before I could man handle the 465/205 complete combo back upright... /forums/images/icons/mad.gif I almost went in for the night.

    Instead, I took the bellhousing and tride to fit it to the block... the fork/TB come in contact with the clutch WAY before I get close to the block... remove the piston from the slave cyl., and the fork moves back, and STILL can't make it all the way in. Pull the TB and then, AND ONLY THEN, does it finally make it to the block! /forums/images/icons/mad.gif WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME??? I don't think this was meant to be.... kinda depressing... its really getting to my head now. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

    Can you have the wrong fork, TB, clutch combo which would make for this severe clearance problems??? I'm am lost... someone up to helping me tonight?

    Thanks all!

    -Dan
     
  2. outlaw612

    outlaw612 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    Its been a while since I did any manual trans stuff, but could you possibly have the throwout bearing slid on the fork the wrong way? Last trans I put in my Mustang, I did this. It made about 1/2-3/4" difference.
     
  3. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    Nope, the bearing is facing the correct way... but it sure didn't look like the bearing was sliding very far back on the nose of the trans... wonder what the problem is. It seems to me that the fork isn't allowed to move far enuf back when the slave cyl. is in place behind the fork. I'm not sure how things are put together for sure... maybe someone has stuff online?

    I think its in correctly... I'm leaning more towards parts incompatability problems. Can you have the wrong fork, bearing, or clutch combo?

    -Dan
     
  4. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    what fork you running?

    I love the drama of your posts
     
  5. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    Hell if I know what fork I have... its a fork that two people previously confirmed is for use in a hydro setup. But with the slave cylinder in place at the end of the fork, the fork is already slightly touching the clutch without the TB in place! Something just sounds wrong... Can the bellhousing be the wrong one for a BBC? Maybe its for a SBC, even though all other tranny combos I've come across fit both SBC and BBC without problems???

    I knew I should take pictures, but I prolly would have thrown the camera across the damn street in frustration! /forums/images/icons/mad.gif Just thinking about this again is givin' me a flippin' head ache! /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

    BTW MJ, glad to keep you interested! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    -Dan
     
  6. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    I will call Ron Istas at Inland truck to see if he could look up part numbers to compare. As far as I knew, the GM fork is the same for hydro and manual - however the NV4500 uses a different fork style. Could you have an incorrect slave? Maybe take yours off and take it to the parts store and compare with the correct one for a BBC 4 speed application.

    I'll see what I can find out. One other thing if you ever pull the stuff out and re-install. Save the fluid for after its installed in place. Chances are you had too much to begin with. the transfer case and transmission do not sit perfectly level and the fill plugs are on the back. Secondly, how did the fluid spill? You have a non slip setup, and stuff right? If everything is in one piece, you should not have spillage - unless your shifter was out - ahh thats probably it!

    Man, Im starting to get worried about you. We may have to put you on 24 hour watch. Iwill keep you posted.
     
  7. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    Neil - thanks for the concern! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Keep in mind, I'm a short 5.5hr drive away from you... if you are so worried, come on up this weekend, and help me finish this beast!!! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

    So if the fork is correct, then that's not it. What about the pressure plate choice I made? Could I have the wrong pressure plate (too thick?) maybe? See these pics:

    http://community.webshots.com/album/35301768CuEbVM

    I have the clutch that has "three fingers" installed right now. It just looked like it was in better condition that the multi-finger clutch. The flywheel is BRAND NEW, and no shims are installed, so that shouldn't be it... the disc was in great shape, and is installed with the "green dot" facing the rear of the truck, and the matching "green dot" is on the 3 finger clutch... There is nothing else there!

    I also looked at the little pivot ball thingy (PBT) in the BH, and it is installed tightly against that surface. The fork is engaged correctly on the PBT, and moves freely. When I had the BH bolted to the trans, the TB engaged with the fork would barely slide towards the trans... it would stop sliding back once it was flush with the end of the bearing spindle thingy attached to the trans... I wasn't sure that I liked that too much... but AGAIN - that's only because the slave prevented any further movement backwards.

    So I'm lost. Neil, comon up and bring some parts, and a good set of wrenching clothes!!! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif Any willing help accepted! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif I'll see if I can't get a few pictures tonight... but keep thinking for me people! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

    -Dan
     
  8. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    When you installed the clutch disk, do you remember if the portion of the disk which protrudes out more than the rest (in the center of the disk), is that facing toward the pressure plate? It should be. Visually check the pressure plate/disk/flywheel from a side view or bottom view looking directly at where they mate. Look through any of the 6 "windows" between the bolts holding the pressure plate on the flywheel. In viewing your pressure plate, picture of the face side, you can see the scalloped "windows" between the bolt holes.

    Make sure the disk is nice and flat against the pressure plate and the flywheel. If not, you may have installed the disk backwards. Ask Ken how well this works! Clutch disks can be installed backwards but heres typically what happens if you dont get as far as starting the motor! The pressure plate collapses just a little bit and usually when installing the pressure plate, it needs pulled down "more" - during this mistake at times people wonder why their bolts arent long enough. You should never have to pull down a pressure plate - "Very Much". What I mean is, there will be some resistance because that is the pressure which holds the disk to the flywheel in the engaged position - possibly the thickness of the disk. Ask Ken how it sounds when you install the disk improperly. It chews up that nice new flywheel too! The clutch disk should be stamped with "Flywheel Side" on one side. Anyway, Im not saying to pull it all apart, just make sure you have the disk in correctly. Since you are running hydro, the Borg and Beck style clutch should be fine. I ran one and it nearly killed my leg with manual linkage.

    I would love to help man, but I am rounding up all my parts which requires a drive to Jeff City this weekend.

    Havent called Istas yet, I will try sometime today.
     
  9. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    So the "three finger" or "Borg and Beck" is okay too. And yes, the disc is facing the correct direction... but there is no "text" on either surface stating the intend direction, because this disc is SLIGHTLY used. There is a "green dot" which can also be found on the case of the clutch, which seems to indicate that "green" is good to be facing outwards where you can see it thru the clutch.

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    You should never have to pull down a pressure plate - "Very Much".

    <hr></blockquote>AGREED! When I installed my assembly to the flywheel, the bolts had MAYBE &lt;1/4" to pull it in tight. I torqued them to 25lbs, like the manual says.

    Thanks for acting like you would consider coming up here Neil, but I didn't really expect you to take the request seriously! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif I was more just teasing... but heck, if you get the 400 &amp; doubler installed before I finish this - I might try to convince you again later! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Thanks for stickin' with me thru all this nonsence! /forums/images/icons/blush.gif
     
  10. outlaw612

    outlaw612 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    I know this is a totally different aproach, but is the housing going all the way against the block? If not, you may want to check that the pilot bearing is seated completely into the crank. I fought with my trans because of this.It was about a 1/2" away and wouldnt go any farther. Just an idea.
     
  11. 350S10NJ

    350S10NJ Registered Member

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    I remember reading something about the clutch fork pviot ball being different for man. and hyd. You might want to check that, if you haven't allready
     
  12. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    Throwout bearing for hydro/manual is different IIRC, one is "longer" or "thicker" if you will, than the other.
     
  13. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    I HAVE PICS OF BOTH MANUAL &amp; HYDRO BH &amp; fork.

    I haven't posted them anywhere yet... LMK if you want pics! Do you want side by sides? Both sets are still out of the truck!

    THE FORKS from each series (manual and Hydro) are a little different. Different in length from the ball, if you will.

    You could also adjust the ball outward (if I understand your problem correctly). Centerforce has some specifics in this regards at http://128bitencrypted.com/centerforce/technical_inserts/I93GM002.pdf
    and
    http://128bitencrypted.com/centerforce/technical_inserts/I93GM001.pdf

    PM me, or email me!

    TO
     
  14. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    Dude, if you have pics, I want them! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Lemme know where you post em! Thanks!

    -Dan
     
  15. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    I can email them to you.

    I don't have any web area to post pictures yet... /forums/images/icons/frown.gif
    Can I post them here on CK5? I am a card carrying member...

    How do I do that?

    What about webshots, is this a pay service?
    OK, I am trying to setup some webshots, as TopOff.

    Email me!
     
  16. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    I wouldn't mind seeing/hosting them, have you captioned them/identified the parts in the pics?

    I'd be willing to put them up if need be...CK5 would be a better place (tech archive) than my site, but just depends if CK5 can or wants them to be put up or not.
     
  17. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    I was contemplating getting it all together, and doing some sort of a tech-article for slush box to manual (hydro) conversion. I really haven't set up the pics yet. Let alone the descriptions.

    I imagine this thread will get lost this weekend. Since, I don't browse the internet much on weekends I work on the truck or the car, house etc. (keep building). SOOoooo ... I hope he will email me. I emailed him. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  18. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    Don't forget Dan, once you get this done, you'll never have to worry about the tranny again. Or at least once you get it in, you hopefully won't have a single problem for many, many years with it. Nothing like going to a part that is almost bulletproof, and the security that comes from knowing that.
     
  19. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    Good point! Thanks for reminding me! I have almost lost sight of that... this thing is kickin' my butt somethin' fierce! /forums/images/icons/frown.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Thanks for getting me back on track... now I just need to know what to do to finish the install! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    -Dan
     
  20. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: *GRUMBLING* Damn tranny part two - PLEASE HELP

    can you double check the difference in "thickness" of the diaphram vs bornbeck pressure plates?
    it could be that the newer hydro ones are diaphram only?
    grasping
     

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