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Gun experts/ and everyone else

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by hammermachine, Nov 24, 2006.

?

M16/M4 replacement?

Poll closed Dec 9, 2006.
  1. Yes replace the Rifles, with...

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. No, never over my dead cold... uh oh copyrights...

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  3. Yes replace it with the HK M8!

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  4. My choice of replacement rifles!

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  5. I'm naked, shooting, laying on top of some fire ants.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. hammermachine

    hammermachine 1/2 ton status

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    What will replace the M16/ M4 series assault rifle? Is it overdue for a change? Does it need changing?:confused:
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2007
  2. CDA 455

    CDA 455 3/4 ton status

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    No, no changing yet. The weapons work fine. Don't need anything hi-tech. Look at our enemy!! 14th century maggots!!
     
  3. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Those new hi-tech buggers look pretty cool. From what I understand, they can operate as a regular centerfire rifle if the electronics fail.

    I almost bought an AR-15 recently under the influence of pure lust... I bought a motorcycle instead.
     
  4. hammermachine

    hammermachine 1/2 ton status

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    I thought AR-15 were banned in New York state?:confused:
     
  5. grimjaw

    grimjaw 1/2 ton status

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    Personally, I think the weapon is ok ( I like gas piston better) but the ammo is the weak link. 5.56x45 is to light and for most cases 7.62x51 is too heavy.
     
  6. badmix

    badmix 1/2 ton status

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    they can have AR15s that were made prior to '94 when the Cliton ban went into effect. Anything after that time they cannot.

    As far as the topic, If anything, most spec ops and some specialized units are goin back to the M1A (M14). They are realiable and get the job done, a bit heavier but worth its weight.
     
  7. hammermachine

    hammermachine 1/2 ton status

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    You might be right. There is alot of experts debating the size and weight of the 5.56x45. The accounts of the Somila fight and other experiances show there is alot to be said about the 5.56. I only used the 7.62x51 with the M60 and M14, I liked it for the range and lethal capablities but I don't like the thought of going into combat with alot less magazines due to the weight of the combat load. There has to be something else out there.
     
  8. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    I don't think the caliber will change for awhile. dIf they do, the 249 will be the only infantry weapon using the 5.56 round.

    I believe that the original AK-47 round is the best compromise, plus we could use captured ammo.:D
     
  9. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    who are you kidding? yeah, the M16 and variations of if fire fine and are easy to maintain.. but they dont have stopping power for crap.

    its rather funny, the benelli semi auto came out, but cant fire non lethals, so we had to keep the old pump action for that.

    the M-16 is a great weapon... when you are not fighting aginst a guy doped up on who knows what. we need to go back to 7.62, but stupid NATO/geneva conventions crap wont let us...
     
  10. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    They probably are, I haven't been paying attention lately. I was in a local rifle shop recently and was drooling over a couple that were in a line behind the counter. They could have been something else for all I could tell, but with a tag of $1800, I figured they were AR-15's.

    I should have said, I'm posting as "Everyone else", not a Gun Expert... :rotfl:
     
  11. CDA 455

    CDA 455 3/4 ton status

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    Excellent point :bow: . My reply was at the end of my 12HR shift :blush: .
    I've heard from my friends who served in the Middle East that they want to basically go back to WWII style 'heavy' carbine loads.
    In Viet Nam the enemy wasn't wearing multi layers of clothes for warmth so 'light' loads were fine. Now we're fighting an enemy with many layers of clothing, especially in the mountains of Afgan.
    H&K has already come out with a 45 carbine :D !!
     
  12. Jagged

    Jagged 1 ton status

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    .308/.30-06
     
  13. CDA 455

    CDA 455 3/4 ton status

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    AMEN!
     
  14. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    Somebody produce a 45-70 semi auto. Lets see Abdul fight with a 405 grain in his chest.
     
  15. roadnotca

    roadnotca 3/4 ton status

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  16. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    yeah, the design of the M16-series of weapons is fine IMO. The bullet is light weight... but on the other hand, 5.56 is good for light machine guns. One guy can carry 600-800, or more, rounds of 5.56 (ask me how I know!) and that is a lot of firepower with an M249. At any rate, most times 5.56 is enough... must be kinda distressing when its not though. A little more penetration-power would be good also, even in the war on terrorism. Terrorists tend to hide when spoted by grunts and its good when our bullets can punch through walls, cars etc etc to get 'em.

    At any rate, I think the optimum combo of weight vs knockdown power would be a 100-ish grain bullet at about 3000 fps. The 5.56 is 55-62 grains at about 3k.... the .308 or 30-06 is more like 150gr at 3k. The speed on either is good... but one is a little light.. the other a little heavy. The 6.8 that one of the AR15 aftermarket companies offers might be a good one. I dunno. Web says the 6.8 is a 115 gr bullet at 2650 fps... I think it could be slightly smaller/faster but I'm sure that it hits harder than the 5.56 is any case.

    j
     
  17. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    I like 5.56 just fine. I understand the doped up crazy mofo argument but I also roll with a CAAT platoon so I have heavy gun support(50s, mks, and TOW). I also have an HE in my 203 when I'm on patrol and if I fire that, no matter what your smoking, your going down and so is everyone within 5m of your dumbass. Even without the heavy guns we always have a 240 on foot patrols when we're expecting some contact. Also if people had more discipline to fire well aimed shots, you don't need a large caliber to take mofos down. Just my two cents....:D
     
  18. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    lots of concrete and mud brick walls in the sandbox though. Well placed shots are the way it should always be, but shooting through barriers of various kinds can be very handy also. Of course, having ma-duece for backup always helps too. :)

    I dunno... I still think the M14 with synthetic furniture is the best battle rifle of all time. The newer ones that Springfield is making rock.

    [​IMG]

    .308 to the chest will slow anyone down.

    j
     
  19. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    I'll ask Uncle Sam for one of those for Christmas, it's the least that bastard could do.
     
  20. resurrected_jimmy

    resurrected_jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    I was thinking along these lines as I read this thread. I was thinking closer to a wild-cat of the 5.56 X 45 case up to 6.2mm with a boat-tail type bullet for a higher cross sectional density and more penetration. I'm basing this loosely on the characteristics of the 6.5 Swedish cartridge which is an excellent round
     

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