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hard start

Discussion in '1982-Present GM Diesel' started by braunm, Sep 9, 2001.

  1. braunm

    braunm Registered Member

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    When my blazer get's cold. Like over nite. It is real hard to start in the morning. Take's a lot of cranking if the battery's dont die first. A lot of white and black smoke come out like the fuel need's to work it's way back up to the pump or something like that. While it's warm it is fine. Over night the next morning all over again. I was told this will not hurt the truck I dont see how that could be true. I stoped driving it for a while till this get's fixed. Just before this happend I let my friend use it for the day. I think he might have done something to it. Well, I leearn the hard way. Any help on this would be great!!! Thank for your help.

    Mike
     
  2. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    If it starts smoking as soon as you begin cranking, you've got a glow plug problem. If it doesn't start to smoke until it's cranked awhile you're sucking air in you fuel line/filter/system. Glow plugs aren't hard to diagnose; check for power to, check for continuity thru each plug. If you have the square box style filter the sometimes can develope a (air) leak from filter seals or the restriction/water sensors mounted in the back.

    Real trucks don't have spark plugs!
     
  3. braunm

    braunm Registered Member

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    Where should I start to dianose the problem? It take's alot of cranking to get the smoke going out the rear. I took it to my frend's shop did some looking the fuel pump is wet and so are the lines on the back of the injector pump. This is my first diesel so Im not to sure what to do. A few month's back I had the injector pump rebuilt.

    Thanks for your help dieseldan
     
  4. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I agree with DieselDan..........it really sounds like a glow plug problem. You should check each glowplug individually with a voltmeter(I'm not sure how it's done because I've only watched a friend do ot once). If all the plugs check out good, then it sounds like a relay or controller problem. Does your glowplug light on your dash come on when you turn the key? Do you hear the relay cycle and does your glow plug light go on and off while the engine warm up? If all the above works chances are you have a few bad plugs.

    FYI - My truck started fine for along tiime. Last winter it started getting harder and harder to start. I ended up having 6 dead glowplugs and since I replaced them, I haven't had a problem.

    You should also check your fuel filters- they should be replaced yearly. If you're not running a quality diesel conditioner, start doing it now. You may also have an injector problem, but if the problem has only started with a drop in temperature, chances are they are fine.

    If you're finding diesel around your injector pump, you may have recieved a bad pump. Most 6.2 pumps fail at the throttle body seal. I would take your truck back to the shop that installed the pump and let them check it out. They may have failed to properly tighten the fuel lines at the back of the pump(or one may have cracked). This might be allowing air to get into the pump causing the engine to start poorly.......

    Anyhow, sorry for the rambling. Let us know what you find!!!![​IMG]



    <font color=blue> MEAN DAD WITH TWO BAD KIDS<font color=blue>
     
  5. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    The easiest way to check the plugs is to take each one out and leave it hooked up to the wire and then ground the threaded part of the plug to something metal. It will glow almost immediately when you turn the key ( or manual switch ) unless it is bad. I agree with the others. Its most likely a glow plug problem. Get some good plugs to replace the old ones. AC 60gs if you have a manual switch and 11gs if you have the stock controller.

    82 K5, 6.2L Diesel, sm465, np205, 14 bolt welded, 8 lug 10 bolt lock right, 410 gears, 35" Mud Kings
    SPEAK SOFTLY AND DRIVE A BIG TRUCK
     
  6. braunm

    braunm Registered Member

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    I did not say that my blazer is a military m1009. Hope this help's. Thanks for your help guy's.

    Mike
     
  7. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    Well I didn't say for sure it's glowplugs. Wetness around the pump and lack of smoke would have me (or the shop that worked on it!) looking for a loose/broken line: air leak.

    THEN you say it's a M1009, Oh boy! (Maybe it IS the 'plugs) My forte'. Real easy; take a voltmeter connect it to the lead going into the GlowPlug solenoid on the firewall. You should have 24V going into the solenoid with the plugs OFF. When the GP cycles ON the voltage should drop to 12V. Check to ensure the voltage (12V) on the lead leaving the solenoid (to plugs) when cycled ON. Now here's the trick: IF your voltage doesn't drop down close to 12V (like 14V+) you've got dead glow plugs. The Achilles heal of the CUCV is the ballast resistors mounted in-line before the solenoid. the resistors reduce 24V to 12V provided they have resistance (glowplugs) on the other end. THUS when a GP dies = less resistance = more voltage. THEN, more voltage = more dead glowplugs. You can end up with all eight dead in a few starts.

    If it were mine, I'ld axe the 24V. Its only used on the starter, glowplugs (but lowered to 12V), black-out lights, and for mil-spec radios.

    Real trucks don't have spark plugs!
     
  8. braunm

    braunm Registered Member

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    The voltage is fine. Now like blueblazer62 said Im taking out the gp and putting them on metal to check them. I can't get them to come out on the driver side. they are loose but for some reason I can't get them to pull out. Don't want it to break and fall into the block. Also the plugs say ac 13g the new ones I have say 6a843g070 on them so I have the wrong ones? This is what was sold to me. Thank all of you for your help.

    Mike
     
  9. braunm

    braunm Registered Member

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    Why Is a manual switch better? Dont they need to be on to start the truck?

    Mike
     
  10. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    OK What are you getting for voltage (at the relay) when the glow plugs cycle on. I ask because "usually" when the glow plugs won't come out it's because they're swelled: as in BAD/DEAD. But maybe it's just carbon built up on the plugs. Yes, you do not want to break the plug off in the head. What you need to do is apply pulling pressure while you unscrew the plug. We fabricate a small fork tool, at work, to assist with this.

    Now the reality: you still may break one (or more). Don't panic, pull the injector out and use forceps or try to lasso the end with a nylon tie-wrap. Don't operate the engine with a broke tip in there. If it gets out of the prechamber into the cylinder it will damage valves/pistons.

    Real trucks don't have spark plugs!
     
  11. braunm

    braunm Registered Member

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    My volt meter said 24 then it went to almost to zero. My boss said that was fine. Would it be good to add a manual switch?Is it better? Gp on passenger side came right out. The driver side tha two front are real lose but did not come out. the two in the back all the thread out and are hard to turn and not to loose and are kind of tight. The gp i got out are ac 13g the new ones i have are ba843g070. What the heck does that mean?

    thanks
    Mike
     
  12. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    If you break off a tip undo the injector and either use a shop vac with a good seal against the head to suck it out or use compressed air to try and blow it out.

    82 K5, 6.2L Diesel, sm465, np205, 14 bolt welded, 8 lug 10 bolt lock right, 410 gears, 35" Mud Kings
    SPEAK SOFTLY AND DRIVE A BIG TRUCK
     
  13. Danno

    Danno 1/2 ton status

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    Wow, I was just wondering about what would I do if I break some glow plugs when I go to change them in the near future. You guys rule!

    This place is so full of info and people with experience... Hooray for CK5!!!

    Gotta send some cash in for membership.
     
  14. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    OK something is definately wrong. As I said, power for the plugs going into the solenoid should be 24V (battery) with the key off/GP not cycling, then drop to 12V when the plugs cycle on. CUCVs originally came with 13G (HMMWV 24V used 15G) although there were alot different replacement manufacturers and numbers (they where different than civilian 6.2). If it MINE I would spend for the 60G glowplugs as they are the PTC (positive Temperature Control) models and like a longer cycle time that the CUCV has. I'm not an Orignal Equipment worshipper but the word is to stay away from aftermarket (non AC Delco) glow plugs (and controllers for the civvie 6.2/6.5). My bet is the parts guy gave you civilian style aftermarket glowplugs that couldn't take the longer cycles of the CUCV and croaked. The manual switch isn't neccesarily better (don't let the wife drive it). Just remember the CUCV uses a controller unlike all the civilian controllers GM had. It's under the dash in a black box about the size of a pack of cigarettes, above the pedals.

    Just to confuse everybody:

    9G, 11G, (and 60G?) plugs are 6 volt plugs used on all civilian 6.2/6.5 12volt trucks
    13G are 12V plugs used on CUCVs which is 12V (dropped by resistors from 24V)
    15G are 24V plugs used on HMMWVs

    disclaimer: As far as I know.


    Real trucks don't have spark plugs!
     
  15. braunm

    braunm Registered Member

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    I dont know what to do I can't get the gp out!!!! I was told to put some pb blaster on them that did nothing. The shop here said if it was carbon pb would get rid of it. That did no good. I did what you said dieseldan and i could not get it to grab the threads. The two front plugs are loose past the threads. The two rear ones are still very tight.All the thread is out but I can't turn them buy hand. Dieseldan any thing else you can tell me would be great. I need this truck to run by Monday I hope. Thanks for your help.

    Mike
     
  16. Tybee

    Tybee 1/2 ton status

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    They sound like they might be mushroomed.

    1984 GMC Jimmy 379 diesel, 700R4, 3.73s, 31x10.50 x 15
     
  17. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    I sense alot of stress in your life... OK two ways I know to try to remove stick GPs.

    First, not as efficient but do-able with standard tools: with a pair of vise grips on the end of the glow plug, apply outward/pulling pressure while as the same time un-screwing GP with open end wrench.

    Second method requires fabrication of a small "fork-like" tool. Picture a small steel sheet/plate approx 1.5" x .5" call it the foot. At one end of the foot drill &amp; cut a "U" shaped opening using a glowplug for dimensions. I have two tools: one with a foot opening just big enough to slide around the GP electrode and another with an opening larger go around the upperpart of the GP just above the threaded portion. (How far are the glow plugs coming out before they are stuck determines which tool to use.) At the opposite end of the foot is a bar/round stock .3"dia handle x 6" long, welded to the foot at a 45 degree angle. The tool applies the steady pressure while the glowplug is unscrewed with a ratchet.

    There is another tool I've heard of but haven't seen (yet). It consists of a threaded collet that is split. each half goes around the threaded portion of the GP and it held together while the glow plug is further unscrewed from the head &amp; collet. MAYBE you could try this by cutting a nut in half and holding together around the GP with vise grips.

    'Just to be clear - Your right the threads have already cleared the head. What we're trying to accomplish is to thread the (swollen) electrode out of the head.

    Good Luck, remember there is still a good possiblity a Glow Plug may break off. Take a deep breath (maybe a beer) then deal with that problem afterwords.

    Real trucks don't have spark plugs!<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by DieselDan on 09/21/01 07:29 PM.</FONT></P>
     
  18. Tybee

    Tybee 1/2 ton status

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    Damn good advice Dan, I remember hearing about making and using some kind of fork when I was in the army but I thought it was for after they broke off, and also remember something about using a paper clip to get the broke piece out.

    1984 GMC Jimmy 379 diesel, 700R4, 3.73s, 31x10.50 x 15
     
  19. OFFRDK5

    OFFRDK5 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Here is the tool DieselDan

    http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&amp;cat=2274&amp;page=1&amp;#30530

    Its a very nice tool. I had mushroomed plugs and I got the help of a more experienced Deisel mechanic and he used that tool to remove them!!

    SK-15
    J**P...it's whats for dinner!
    Roads? Where we're going, we don't need any roads!
    If it wasn't for bad luck I would have no luck at all!!
     
  20. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I've seen the tool that dan is describing(never had to use one yet......phew), but I've never seen those, SK. How exactly does it work?



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