Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

help please -- NOT your typical spark plug question

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by 77Jimmy, Oct 9, 2002.

  1. 77Jimmy

    77Jimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I'm getting ready to change my spark plugs on my 77 Jimmy. I reference my Chilton's and went out and bought R44T plugs. I'm about to start the job and notice that the existing plugs are R45TS, which is for 1979 and up. According to Chilton's, the gap is the same for both, .045. Are the R44T the right plugs? Is one plug bigger, wider, whatever than the other? I'm pretty sure it's the original 77 engine.

    Also, I put my socket on and tried to break loose one of the plugs -- didn't budge. I didn't put my full weight into it b/c I didn't want to shear the threads or break the plug, but put enough into it to wonder why this thing was so tight. How hard is it typically to break loose a plug? I bought some penetrating spray and will try that but was just curious.

    Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  2. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Posts:
    13,073
    Likes Received:
    245
    Location:
    Mobile, Al.
    The difference between the 2 plugs is the both the heat range and electrode. On the R45TS you'll notice that the tip and electrode (hook) stick out slightly farther than on the R44T, that is what the "S" in the part number does. Now the numeric difference, 44 vs 45, is a step in heat range with the 45 being the hotter plug.

    As for who to trust? Go with what the AC Delco spark plug catalog, not the Chilton book. The Chilton book is a good book but it's not a parts catalog.
     
  3. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Posts:
    15,160
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Both plugs are fine depending on your weather, nvrenuf explained that enuf /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    About taking them off, well I am not there to judge what kind of force you're putting on it, but the block is iron and it's not as soft as aluminum blocks so you can try harder. I would use a longer breaker bar and slowly build some pressure then give it a little pulse it should break loose.
     
  4. 77Jimmy

    77Jimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Thanks to both you guys for the help. I got the plugs from PepBoys and all they did was look up my make, model and year. Where can I get an AC Delco parts catalog? I'm thinking I might go to NAPA since they seem to be on top of things a little more than others.

    If NAPA can't help, then I'll probably run the R45TS since it runs hotter -- aren't you suppose to run a hotter plug if most of your driving is stop and go?
     
  5. TorkDSR

    TorkDSR 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2001
    Posts:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    bucks co pa
    not to start a whole new thread but, The NAPA guys by me are morons. i work behind a parts counter...i know what im saying when i say someone doesnt know how to do their job.

    ps the reason i went in there was to get a hybrid u-joint that my store didnt carry.

    the opinions expressed throughout this post are mine and i take sole responsibility for them...and this only covers the NAPA guys by me.

    Ryan
     
  6. jjlaughner

    jjlaughner 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2001
    Posts:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Indiana
    I used boshe (sp?) platinum plugs. After fouling out a couple I tried the Champion Truck Plugs and the truck ran like CRAP!!!! So I went back to the trusty AC DELCO plugs got a step hotter and wow what a difference from the other plugs. They have been in the truck for almost 2 years no problems. About a year ago I changed out the cap/rotor, coil, and wires with accell street wires, accell street coil (yellow) and its still running like a top! /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif [​IMG]
     
  7. POWERMAD

    POWERMAD 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Posts:
    3,466
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    It sounds like Jonny Overtorque put the plugs in.
    Ya just have to muscle it out, try to push on the rachet so when it breaks loose ya don't bust a knuckle.
    I run the Delco 45 TS's in both the BB's and the 305.
    gapped at .045".
     
  8. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Posts:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Massachusetts
    As stated the difference is in electrode and heat range. As far as getting the plugs out. If they are being tough, I would spray each of them with a HEALTHY shot of PB Blaster and let it soak in (may want to do it a couple of times) then try it. Theres nothing worse than busting a plug off in the head (just don't ask by how I know /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif). If you do bust one off in the head, PM me and I'll tell you how I got mine out.
     
  9. chewy4x4

    chewy4x4 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I work for an ACDelco dist. and my catolog shows the R45TS for a 77 jimmy w/ 350. As to buying plugs make sure you are buying them from a vendor that deals with ACDelco directly. We had in the area a few counterfit plugs floating around. Also check out ACDelco for a parts catolog that is very accurate.
     
  10. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    Did you try removing the plug with the engine "hot"? Never hurts to try removing stuck engine bolts etc. with the engine warm. Usually applies to corrosion, but different rates of expansion and contraction (between plug and head) will loosen the grip on an over tightened bolt too.
     
  11. 77Jimmy

    77Jimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Thanks to all for your help! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    POWERMAD and chewy4x4,
    Thanks for the confirmation -- I will definitely run the 45TS's now for sure.

    Leadfoot,
    I'll pretend I didn't read that --- I don't want to have to email you about how to get a broken plug out! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    dyeager535,
    Tried to take out the plug w/ a cold engine. If the penetrating spray doesn't work then I'll try the warm engine thing.

    Thanks again!!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  12. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Posts:
    4,606
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks for the link
     
  13. wrathORC

    wrathORC 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Posts:
    908
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hancock, MI
    Use an AC book. Chances are there are at least two different plugs for your truck. I know my 84 has two different ones for 305s and my 77 had two for the 350.

    Easy solution: Buy AC RapidFire #1s. You won't be disappointed. I used to be a Champion "truck plug" kind of person but they just don't hold up on vehicles with more than 6 cylinders.


    Removing spark plug:
    put penetrating oil on it. preferably good stuff like PB, CRC, or ZEP.

    - Big-assed breaker bar
    - impact on its lowest setting
    - heat. unplug the wire from that spark plug and plug in another plug and rest it on something so it gets ground. start the motor. she'll be running on 7 cylinders but the spark plug in the block will be cool but the head won't. By plugging a spark plug in to the removed boot you won't fry your coil. Even though the block will be hot hopefully since the spark plug will be cold it might be enough to get the plug out.

    if none of those work, it's time to get the chisel out.


    To avoid this in the future:
    don't overtighten. use liberal amounts of anti-seize.
     
  14. 77Jimmy

    77Jimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Thanks, wrath. I won't be able to get at the plugs tonight but I went ahead and got the 45TS's today. The engine runs great w/ the old 45TS's in there right now so my thinking is why mess w/ something that is a-OK -- stick to the same type plugs.

    Yea, thanks for the heads up on how to prevent this again. I guess the guy I bought the rig from got torque happy w/ the plugs. If penetrating spray/oil doesn't work, I might end up trying your trick.

    Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  15. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Posts:
    3,112
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Massachusetts
    /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    Yeah it wasn't fun either. It happened on NoAngel's 95 Cavalier with the 2.2 liter ALUMINUM head engine. The plugs were original (no anti-sieze), and very little maintenance was done by the previous owner(s). The worst part was I got it out without removing the head (which was one thought) and it was a long tedious process trying to save the threads (which I did), and about a month later the head gasket went, so I had to pull the head anyways (boy was I /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif). Live and learn I guess.
     
  16. 77Jimmy

    77Jimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    *UPDATED* Re: help please -- your typical spark plug question

    Well, I'm 3 plugs into this job and have another question. The 3 plugs I have pulled out all have a gap of .040. Is this level of degradation typical? Am I missing something? I'm proceeding w/ .045 unless I hear differently from somebody.

    Thanks in advance... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  17. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Posts:
    15,160
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Re: *UPDATED* Re: help please -- your typical spark plug question

    That means they were gapped at the stock .35 and now they are eroded, I would still use them if the edges of the electrode are not rounded. Just regap them.
     
  18. 77Jimmy

    77Jimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Re: *UPDATED* Re: help please -- your typical spark plug question

    Thanks for the help. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    I thought stock was .045 -- is that what you meant? The edges are rounded so I'm just replacing them. Besides, this is the first time I've replaced plugs so it's a learning experience. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  19. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    Re: *UPDATED* Re: help please -- your typical spark plug question

    I'm running .050 in my truck now, and to tell you the truth, everything between .035 and .050 has been the same. No increase in mileage and/or power, at least nothing detectable.

    GM bounced around on plug gaps a few times...when HEI first came out they went with .060, then down to .045, then later on .035, then back up to .045, then back down to .035.

    The story I heard on the .045/.035 change that occurred in the 80's was that coils were too short lived with .045, but I don't buy that story. The Chev in cap coil (heck, the whole HEI setup is the same basically) is the same as the Olds, and the Olds runs a .060 gap. (.080 in some cases)
     
  20. 77Jimmy

    77Jimmy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Re: *UPDATED* Re: help please -- your typical spark plug question

    Thanks for the info, Dorian! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Just got done changing all of them -- went w/ .045 gap. Will see if it makes a difference, but it sounds like it won't. All the old plugs looked good, w/ the exception of one which had just barely started to bridge.

    Plugs 6 and 8 were a real beeeeeeatch to get at and get out. I hand threated them all and then put a slight bit of torque on the wrench to set them good.

    Can't fire up the engine b/c it's in my garage, it's raining cats and dogs outside, and I don't have the hard top on (anyone have a soft top they want to sell? seriously /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).
     

Share This Page