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Help with Bilstein 5100 valving choice

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by az ranger, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. az ranger

    az ranger 1/2 ton status

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    I have searched and still unsure what I should go with for valving on this shock. vehicle specs are in my sig. rear suspension is 4 in shackle flip with 2 in blocks for 6 in. of rear lift. Front suspension is Superlift 6in springs.

    I think the available options for valving are 275/78 or 255/70 I don't really know jack about what those numbers mean. I am usually topless on my jimmy so the weight is cut some.

    Also this is not a daily driver but I do drive it on the road a couple time a week, as for wheeling it is usually moderate with a lot of bumpy dirt roads and the occasional rock crawl
     
  2. mo

    mo 1/2 ton status

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  3. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    Based on running 255/70's in the rear of my Sub I would start with the 275/78's.
     
  4. mini_mull

    mini_mull 1/2 ton status

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    Doesn't it get stiffer with higher numbers?
     
  5. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    It does, but the difference btwn those two valve stacks is pretty small and my Sub is under-damped in the rear, particularly in Rebound which is the larger number of each pair.
     
  6. mini_mull

    mini_mull 1/2 ton status

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    Hmmm, good to know I'll be buying some of those for my burb as soon as I get the flip installed. What part no did you use?

    As for AZ ranger though, isn't a jimmy a lot lighter than a burb, might be OK with less valving.:dunno: Best bet would probably be to call bilstein's tech dept.
     
  7. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    Spring rate is more of a decider than weight. Mine are 8" stroke non-remote res 7100's, but the valve stacks for the 5100's, 6100's, and 7100's are the same. I suspect this is also true of the 5150's, but no confrimation.
     
  8. mini_mull

    mini_mull 1/2 ton status

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    So a spring with a lighter spring rate would need a shock with lower valving value, correct? I wonder if you knew your spring rate and called bilstein if they could tell you what your application should be?
     
  9. SCOOBYDANNN

    SCOOBYDANNN 1/2 ton status

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    I had the 255's on the front with 56" springs and it was very soft. I swapped them to the rear and they feel perfect to me.
     
  10. mini_mull

    mini_mull 1/2 ton status

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    What springs do you have on the back, Dan and ntsqd?
     
  11. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    The damper is tuned to both the spring rate and the weight. The Rebound is more about the spring rate than the weight while the compression is more about the weight, but it has the spring helping it. Though I do think it would be a mistake to think "Well, I've got XXX lbs-in springs so I need an xxx/xx valve stack." It's not that simple. Go with what's known as a decent starting point and if so inclined adjust from there. With 5100's that's doable, but not easy & requires some mods. Suggest going to 7100's if you think that you'll want to tune this aspect. The time to mod a 5100 isn't worth the difference in price unless you're determined to low buck it as much as absolutely possible.

    The rears on the Sub are a custom Nationals. They came bolted to the rebuilt & Detroited 14bff that I bought used so I've no idea what their rate is.

    FWIW I also have 255/70 (or they're supposed to be that valving) on the rear of Patch, the wonder yota, with a set of GM 65's. They feel maybe just a little soft, but I've got to pull them apart as there's something else not right in them.

    All of this is probably way beyond what the original poster was looking for. To go back to that Q, I think either will work. If high speed is in the future I'd go with the 275/78's. If crawling is the plan I'd go with the 255/70's.
     
  12. SCOOBYDANNN

    SCOOBYDANNN 1/2 ton status

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    my rear setup is 57" (furd) with 5125 255/70's in a 14" travel and they seem to be perfect for my rig. when running I have a full 263+ craftsman tool set, battery, camping supplies and bee---water and a full 25 gallon gas tank.

    the front has te motor and thats about it, but I have Sub 56"s and SAW emulsion in the 14" travel in stock valving (cant remember off the top of my head) and it also seems perfect to me.

    with the 5125's in the front it was WAAAAY to swooshy and very stiff in the back---swirched them around and it rides wonderful.
     
  13. az ranger

    az ranger 1/2 ton status

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    I am not sure what the spring rate is on the stock rear springs they seem soft though. I am leaning towards the 255/70 now, at least for the rear. I may hold off on the front until I get the ford towers.

    thanks
     
  14. az ranger

    az ranger 1/2 ton status

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    any suggestions on the best place to buy bilsteins.
     
  15. SCOOBYDANNN

    SCOOBYDANNN 1/2 ton status

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    Larry ad Mad4wd has gone above and beyond in getting me what I need. but if you decide not to go with them whatever you do DO NOT go through shaffers offroad--complete a-holes.
     
  16. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    I've seen decent prices on eshox but have not done business with them.
     
  17. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    For the same price as what I've seen the Bilstein 5150s, I like my Doetsch Tech Monotube 2.0 shocks. IMO they are a better value than the 5150s.

    I ordered them direct from Doetsch Tech. They valve each shock order per the truck specifications you give them. They are owner rebuildable and re-valve-able. The only thing the 5150s have over these is the little piggyback reservoir. But you can get an optional remote reservoir on the DTs, but of course that's extra. I didn't get them and don't think I need them. However the fitting is there if I ever wanted to add them in the future.

    I planned to spend a little extra on shocks to help make the truck driveable with 52/56 setup. I have the front shocks mounted, but not the rears. I test drove it this weekend, and with just the front shocks on the truck handles great. I have no concerns about street driving this suspension setup once I have all four shocks mounted.

    With the rebuildable factor and the ability to change the valving if say I ever built a truggy, I figure these are the last shock I'll ever buy for the General.

    Here's some info on the DT shocks:
    [​IMG]

    Some pics of my shocks:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The only thing I would have done different in hindsight is order them with regular poly bushing ends instead of rod ends (optional at no extra cost). The biggest pain with rod ends is that I can't weld on the truck with the shocks installed. Apparently the electrical current could pass through the shocks and ruin them.
     
  18. resurrected_jimmy

    resurrected_jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    you make a good arguement for those shocks. I have been following this thread closely and will deffinately check out the Doetsch Tech shocks. Where did you get your shock towers from?
     
  19. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    I made them. Started with 4" square tube.
     
  20. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    I take it that they use a deflective disc type valving?
    That 5/8" shaft is interesting. With a Bils' 14mm shaft the upper limit on Comp damping is their 80 stack. Anything more will buckle the shaft if moved rapidly, like in a landing. :D
    If the Doetsch use the same OD bearing as the Bils I've found that you can push a urethane shock eye bushing thru the bearing loop after removing the bearing. The 7100 remotes on the rear of Patch have about 7500-8000 miles on them done this way. So far no issues.
     

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