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Hey y'all high speed desert guys.........

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Bubba Ray Boudreaux, Oct 15, 2002.

  1. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    A long time ago, in a galaxy not too far away, there was gonna be a tech write up on setting up a K5 for high speed desert romping. The write-up, to my knowledge has not see the light of day.
    DISCLAIMER: Not badmouthing the guy who said he was going to do this, just stating a fact.

    In the last few days, an interesting discussion concerning this topic has popped up on another board and several CK5 members are involved in the discussion and we are getting a crockpot full of info. I've talked to a couple of the other guys that are involved, and they said they would help me out in my little endeavor so I'm going to jump into this thing and attempt to write a tech article on what some of us are so interested in. We have nary a problem when it comes to what works on the rocks and what not, but the info for high speed desert running has been sort of hard to come by, so I want to put up on one place (If the MackDaddy of the K5 world Mr. Fox allows me a space on here /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif) an in-depth article that will attempt to answer most, if not all questions about what it takes to build a K5 to survive the desert.

    So as I get ready to sit down at the 1GB Toshiba Laptop of Doom and begin to layout my questions, I ask you, the one's who quest for this knowledge, to throw me the questions you have, to throw me the ideas you've come up with to take to the experts and last but not least, to throw me your cash /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif.

    This will take me awhile, a month or so between working, sleeping, eating, hopefully a road trip to LA, and sitting on the Throne of Doom plotting my world takeover, I will get this thing wrapped up, with pictures (No jigglies in this one Eric) and some of those mysteries of the universe will be mysteries no longer. Thank you and goodnight.
     
  2. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    rear shock mounts and cage ideas /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  3. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    KEWL!
    I want to build a 2wd pre runner style K5 so bad I can't stand it. That picture Michel keeps posting of that 74 with the 98 fiberglas update nose gives me a chubbie every time I see it!
    It looks like I just missed a perfect canidate for lack of cash. A relatively rust free 2wd 75 with a 465 tranny (that would have got it 3.73 or 4.10 gears) local to me for $1900. No spare cash /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  4. COCHEV

    COCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    what is your user name over at dezert peps? good forum over there. moves a little slow but hey, its not k5 is it? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    i've been interested in a desert runner for a long time now. i want a 4wd solid axle. no ifs. or 2wd. just need some deaves run spring under and some long ass shackels and some killer shocks. truss the front axle and hit the desert! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  5. K10ANDYKHAMNIC

    K10ANDYKHAMNIC 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    why spring under ?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif there is a guy here in town making a 4x4 prerunner stepside like mine but her sput spring under on the front with these huge , thousand leaf tall arch packs that hang down lower then the stinking diff !!! lame looking as heck ...it hada cage but i think it is a stagnant project.
     
  6. Twiz

    Twiz 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    Now your talking.

    It is a big world out there, lots of earth to cover.
    And if anything has ever been intended to cover all aspects of it, it is the K-5 (well- maybe the boxy-Bronco, but thats another subfject)

    Being able to get some air under the thing has allways been one of the prime objectives of my build-up from the gitgo.

    Weihgt:
    - Light weight 4WD (or as light as we can get). Makes 1/2 ton running gear a must. 60s in the front, as strong as they are, are just too dang heavy. Plus, D44s are easy to come by (buy) if you happen to crack one. With Chromo' shaft and CTM joints - the stength is fairly close to the 60s. Good ball-joints, and some kind-of axle truss, I think (hope) the 44 will survive.
    - Travel:
    Low C/G with lot of travel = lots of controlled drop.
    You can't dangle the axle while it's in the air and expcet it to be "under-control" when you land. It HAS to be sprung, or under tension (pressure), during it's travel.
    - Steering:
    I think a "push-pull" set-up will work the best, when used with a "stock-style" suspension system (leaf-springs). A push-pull steering system will follow the arc of the springs/axle closer than a cross-over system can, and therefore less bump-steer.
    Allthough, the stock drag-link is far-too-short, to do the job.

    Random thoughts and therorys.
     
  7. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    bubba this is awesome you are willing to do this. I was the one that started that thread on "the other board." I would love to go to deaver spring and get a quote from them on how much it is going to cost to get my springs done for my truck. I would also be curious to know on what kind of shocks to run and what the valving you would run, How much droop to set it up too, and yada yada yada. I would love to spend the money right now, but I have none, cause i cant work due to school and sports. Here is the thread for some of you guys to check out. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  8. COCHEV

    COCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    spring under allows for more arch in the spring with equates to more suspension travel. the leaf packs have lots of thin leaves and there are more leaves to creat a more progressive spring rate. spring under supposidly helps with axle wrap as well and keeps the truck lower and better center of gravity while still allowing lots of wheel travle. check out this message board for some good info

    dezertpeople
     
  9. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    I'm just gonna deal with 4wd on this one, but concerning the rear setup, you should find useful information in this thing I'm getting myself into. If, during my quest I find a 2wd, I'll get some info for you.
     
  10. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    I think a "push-pull" set-up will work the best, when used with a "stock-style" suspension system (leaf-springs). A push-pull steering system will follow the arc of the springs/axle closer than a cross-over system can, and therefore less bump-steer.
    Allthough, the stock drag-link is far-too-short, to do the job.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I'm definately going to dive into this. I had it expained to me awhile back and I was totally lost, and I thought crossover would be good. As you can see from the pic Michael posted in another thread, that looks like the setup that K5 has.
     
  11. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    Got ya covered on those rear mounts. What a pain in the butt to deal with, ain't they?
     
  12. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    Well to be honest I want to build a prerunner STYLE truck as my daily driver. I have nowhere I could take advantage of a real Pre Runner. Main objectives are.
    2wd
    33's-35's
    Handle well on the road.
    Decent ride on the road.
    LT1 or LS6
    Overdrive tranny.
    Be family friendly (I have two kids and the Supra isn't cutting it size wise If I need to haul them and the wife is out with the other truck)
    A/C
    I figure if I keep it light with the FI and OD I could expect about 18mph on the hwy if I keep my foot out of it.
    I have my 75 crawler to handle my trail duties already so if I built one it would never see much more than a dirt road.
     
  13. swamp donkey

    swamp donkey 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    When I sved my truck from the wrecking yard I wanted to everthing I could to make it a Pre-runner style truck. The lack of info out there was dissapointing. I found some fiberglass fenders, and that was about it. Other than that I got the "wheel base is too short" or "it's just too heavy" story.
    The best I could do was fake some bumpers - take a look...
    SwampDonkey
     
  14. Michael

    Michael 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    The main problem with "prerunnerizing" a Blazer is that it isn't a Ford. 90% of the dez guys are dyed in the wool Ford nuts...mainly 'cause the I beam front ends are easy and cheap to get travel out of. There's Chevy info out there it's just harder to find. The same principles apply to everyone's rear end regardless of brand. Get some nice Deavers/Nationals and some Fox, King or Sway-A-Way shocks and your set. I'm kinda like Grim, I don't actually do any prerunnin', not much dez around Dallas, but I like the look and what he descibed is pretty much how mine is setup.....'cept for all the trick drive train....someday! By the way I think the swamp donkey Blazer/Jimmy looks great!!
     
  15. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    The bumpers are nice.
     
  16. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    By the way, do you know any 4x4 K5 prerunner pilots?
     
  17. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    Stick with leaves or link it up? Front only? Rear only?
    How much travel can you control with leaves before the handling sucks?
    How to steer and get decent bind free travel all at the same time?
    How to get decent bump travel and keep the ride height low?
    Shackle angles to make the springs progressive?
    Spring design?
    2wd or 4wd?
    Part time vs. full time operation of the t-case?
    Whew, that's a book already, good luck!

    Give me a call as you work on this, I ran the crossover steering with track bar and custom leaves and good shocks type setup on mine for a couple years, I've probably got some good input for you.
    It mostly comes down to accepting the limitations of the vehicle, or throwing the stock vehicle design out the window and starting over. I've done both.
     
  18. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    Stick with leaves or link it up? Front only? Rear only?<font color="red">Leaves, front and rear. This is gonna be for the lowbuck guys.</font color>
    How much travel can you control with leaves before the handling sucks?
    How to steer and get decent bind free travel all at the same time?<font color="red"> I think I already know the answer, but I'm gonna have it explained in detail so I fully understand</font color>
    How to get decent bump travel and keep the ride height low?<font color="red">Don't know what bump travel is, but I think the ride height issue has been answered. </font color>
    Shackle angles to make the springs progressive?<font color="red">Angles is one area I really want to hit with these guys, also shackle position and length. </font color>
    Spring design?
    2wd or 4wd?<font color="red">I'm only gonna deal with 4wd on this because the information for A-Arm suspensions is plentiful, yet for straight-axle is hard to come by.</font color>
    Part time vs. full time operation of the t-case?<font color="red">I think I'm gonna find out that part time cases are used mostly in low buck rigs. The info I've read over the years, I've seen part time cases in use, yet the hubs are locked and some guys have switched back and forth between 2 and 4 wheel drive. But the big money boys like the Herbst's, they have a full-time, computer controlled case.</font color>
    Whew, that's a book already, good luck! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif<font color="red">Yep, it is. I'm sure it's gonna take awhile to put this together. I'm gonna focus on springs, shocks and steering. It's gonna be interesting to see the differences and simulatorities between rock crawlers and desert rigs.</font color>

    I'll certainly give you a call on the steering. I asked a desert guy about crossover a few years ago. It was during a discussion on "swingset" steering on Fords, and from what I saw, it was crossover and I was told that no it wasn't, and then when I asked him about Chevy, he explained it, but I forgot it all, but I'm gonna learn it real hard. Just like the rocks, when you're hammer down and can't turn life sucks.

    Thanks for the input and look forward to talking to you in the future.
     
  19. tori89k5

    tori89k5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    Is this what your talking about ?

    [​IMG]

    See my webshots for more pics. Check the Dirt Day albumn. click here
     
  20. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hey y\'all high speed desert guys.........

    Here it is sitting on the ground
    [​IMG]
     

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