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Hey you welded 14FF guys... question:

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Thumper, Feb 25, 2004.

  1. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    Ok, I am having nothing but grief with this dang POSK5 lately...
    Have any of you with welded 14FF diffs ever noticed any bad ill effects with the driveline because of it being welded? The snow is finally disappearing off the streets and so far I am totally not liking this at all. Ya, I know there is the torque steer, and there is the tire scuffing, and the difficulty taking corners, but what about the groaning/ clunking/ banging under the truck?
    I cant isolate the sounds at all, but when I make a corner, the whole truck gives a shudder. I checked the steering, it kinda sounds like a worn rod end, but none are loose. The next time the sound seems to be coming from the back, but all u-bolts are tight, and bushings are ok. It looked today like my t-case was sliding left and right a bit on the mount, but watching it through the floor, the sound happens and it doesnt move.
    I guess my question is: have any of you had anything wear out faster or break due to the welded diff? The sound and shudder act like something is binding up, then releasing itself. My leaf springs seem to be moving a lot more, and occasionally when I stop the truck after a turn, it sits really lopsided. Then a bit of movement with the wheels turned opposite, it drops back level again.
    Talk about frustration... Broke another rocker arm today, seems like the engine is laboring so hard turning corners that its not going to last.

    Maybe its time to unload the thing... start over... dangit.

    Mike
     
  2. RustBuket

    RustBuket 1/2 ton status

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    Well thats good info. I'm glad I didn't do that! I guess its time for a locker.
     
  3. burbBoy

    burbBoy 1/2 ton status

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    Cant say that i have has that bad of an experiance with my welded rear. What tires are you running and what pressure? What rear springs? Any chance the spring or shackle bushings could be shot?
     
  4. bigyellowjimmy

    bigyellowjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    broken leaf spring or binding shackles??? good luck /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  5. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    I'd be looking at the body mounts and such. The way you describe the leaning and so on it points in that direction. This could also explain the clunking and banging.
     
  6. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    Well, I went front to back on the truck again today... (third time) and couldnt find anything. The spring bushings and shackles are good. There are no broken leafs, all my steering links etc are tight.
    I am running basic Kumho MT 35s at around 30psi. One thing I have noticed and maybe have to double check is the torque on the spring u-bolts. The leaf springs seem to be wrapping a lot more now. I get major wheel hop in the loose/ deep snow. I watched the suspension as my son drove it yesterday, granny low just turning back and forth across the road, the leaf springs seemed to be really shifting... as in wrapping, not really moving at the perch. Maybe I oughta get the power bar out and try to snug the u-bolts down again...
    Dunno... I am almost at the end of my patience. I actually bought a truck trader mag today to see if there are any Jeeps or Toyotas around! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Mike
     
  7. berg76

    berg76 1/2 ton status

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    Maybe you have broken welds in the diff? if not the shuttering may just be your tires gripping really well, but when they do slip they grab again right away at a quick rate. dunno... as for the clunking and banging? I would check body mounts too. the axle movment may have broke somthing loose. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif good luck.

    ~jason
     
  8. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    When mine was welded it leaned while parked. The lean comes from the bind created by the lack of differentation in the diff. If you steer into a spot and don't straiten out for about 10 ft it will lean. The death clunk is probably slop in the welds. Jack it up and rock the tires, if they move more than a 1/8 turn you need to weld it up again.
    A year of all of this was the reason for my detroit purchase.
     
  9. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    I actually found the issue! Finally after 3 days. /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif

    The rear diff pass side u-bolts were a little loose. Only about 2 or 3 turns of the nut, but it was enough to let the leaf springs shift a bit under the torque from the welded diff.
    WHEW! I am just so frikken happy to figure it out. I can see me going with a Detroit eventually also... maybe my next trip down to Phoenix! What are they worth down there?

    Thanks for the input guys.

    Mike
    /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  10. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    the thing I noticed helped alot on DDing my truck was airing the rear tires up to 35-40 psi. At 40 I almost don't notice the welded is there. I wear tires out quickly but oh well.

    Harley
     
  11. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Bahh....Detriots are overrated. And they can break. If it's welded the right way, the entire carrier would have to blow apart for a welded 14b to break. If you can live with the wierd handling and faster tire wear, as far as I'm concerned, there really isn't a reason to go with a Detriot. I say spend the rest of the money you'd spend on a Detriot on disc brakes or something.
     
  12. bigyellowjimmy

    bigyellowjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Glad you found the problem and it was an easy fix Thumper. Dont forget greywolf sells detroits for a good price, he could mail one to ya if/when you decide to go that route. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I ran the welded for a couple years and although I got used to it I had every issue Mikey is having. It causes a lot of strain on parts and can be frustrating. This became most apparent after getting a Detroit...

    With the Detroit it is downright civilized, parking is not a PITA anymore and it takes me everywhere the welded diff did off road. Tire wear seems to be less than with the welded too.

    A Detroit could break...so could a 14 bolt FF axle shaft. I don't worry about either.

    Mikey, Detroits for the 14 bolt FF are approx $320 US...

    Rene
     
  14. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    Fuk... is this site slow these days...

    Anyways, I know my welded diff is tight, there is no play between the tires.
    I already have disc brakes, so cant spend my money on those /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Rene, did you ever get anything wearing out prematurely as a direct result of the welded diff? Besides tires that is?
    I will prolly end up going with a detroit eventually, especially at that price. Did you know they are 800.00+ CDN last time I checked?
    Sheesh.

    Anyways, thanks for the replies...

    Im goin wheelin! CYA Later /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    mike
    /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  15. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    I noticed strain on the front end from the truck pushing through a turn. This wore on balljoints and bearing pretty good. I also felt that my u-joints and wore a little fast also. Driving on the street with a welded diff is like towing a heavy a$$ trailer every day, if not worse IMO.
     
  16. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    I've been running a welded 14FF in my K5 for over 3 years now. Besides for the faster rear tire wear, I haven't noticed any issues. I don't have any weird handling on the street and no problems parking. The truck is not my daily driver but was driven to the trails (minumum 2 hours away) an average of once per month until about 3 months ago.

    The added "strain" the welded diff puts on components is pretty small compared to what the components see during normal use. The shock load of hitting a big pothole at 60 mph is huge compared to what the welded diff might add to the front end components.

    Almost forgot this one.....regarding the truck leaning when you park it with the wheels turned. That has very little, if anything, to do with the welded rear diff. Rather it's due to the kingpin inclination (the angle if you drew a straight line through the center of the upper and lower balljoints as compared to straight vertical). For example if you turn to the left, the left tire is forced down as it follows the arc, and thus pushes the truck up. If you want to try it yourself, evenly jack both front tires up so they are just off the ground and can be spun freely. If you turn the wheels left the left tire will touch the ground...if you turn right the right tire will touch the ground. Wider tires and wheels exaggerate this affect.

    Now granted, I wouldn't want a welded diff in my daily driver but I have no desire to get rid of it in my trail truck.
     
  17. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    regarding the truck leaning when you park it with the wheels turned. That has very little, if anything, to do with the welded rear diff. Rather it's due to the kingpin inclination (the angle if you drew a straight line through the center of the upper and lower balljoints as compared to straight vertical). For example if you turn to the left, the left tire is forced down as it follows the arc, and thus pushes the truck up. If you want to try it yourself, evenly jack both front tires up so they are just off the ground and can be spun freely. If you turn the wheels left the left tire will touch the ground...if you turn right the right tire will touch the ground. Wider tires and wheels exaggerate this affect.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Nice theory...however my truck would sit all cockeyed with the wheels straight after pulling a tight turn. The drivetrain bind would get it that way and keep it that way. With no other change other than going to the Detroit it no longer does that.

    The welded diff was more predictable, but i'll take the Detroit. I've logged over 25,000 miles with the welded diff and probably 10,000 with the Detroit. There is no comparison IME. Off road there is no difference.

    Rene
     
  18. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    how does your detroit do on the ice and snow? I really liked the welded diff in the snow and ice last winter in colorado and I am kinda scared of the detroit unlocking and locking in turns on the ice. Thanks

    Harley
     
  19. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    Ummmmmmmmm Harley? We don't get much snow or ice down this way. Just thought I'd give ya a heads up. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Talk to ya soon and good luck.

    Allan
     
  20. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    ya, but I am thinking about moving back to Colorado so it would be useful info for me. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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