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Hi Pinion! I'm plumbed out! - Updated with new plumbing pics

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by newyorkin, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out! - Updated with new plumbing pics

    Man, I could bang my head on the wall right now...

    How the $^%& do you solder street fittings????? It seems like normal female fittings with pipe in them suck up solder fine, but street fittings within another fitting, there's like no capillary action.

    To add insult to injury, now it seems like NOTHING I solder has any capillary action any more....

    Can you give me some pro soldering advice? I'm scared to turn on the water...
     
  2. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    **Cough**./forums/images/graemlins/weld.gifflux/forums/images/graemlins/weld.gif.**Cough** /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  3. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    I use flux!! The pipe's are a forkin mess of burnt flux!

























































    You think flux might be the problem? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  4. hi pinion

    hi pinion 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    Step 1 -sand the crap out of both ends of the pipe.step 2 add flux before assembly,step 3 aplly medium to high heat to copper for aprox 10 seconds. step 4 take heat away and apply solder. remember Danielson, dont overheat the fitting!!!! also remember the flux and heat suck the solder in the fitting. Aplly more heat the the female joint or fitting rather than the pipe itself (or male side of the fitting. it takes a while to get used to it. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Think of the flux as a black hole in a can, sucking every peice of dirt and debri in with it too.along with the solder. If your fittings arent clean they wont ahere the solder to eachother , make sure they are CLEAN!!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  5. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    You mention not to overheat the fitting. What happens if you do??

    My dad (A Plumber) taught me how to sweat fittings many moons ago, but I don't remember hearing anything about overheating a fitting, so I was wondering what happens when it occurs.
     
  6. hi pinion

    hi pinion 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    it just toasts it, kind of makes it hard to use ,or unusable.It turns like rainbow colored, its kind of weird. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I dont really know what happens to the copper material when toasted.I dont know what its called, it happens with prolonged heat, or super hot heat /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  7. hi pinion

    hi pinion 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    oh yeah , you may have bought the wrong fitting altogether /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif if it feels real loose on the copper you may have.Some of the radius is different on inside fittings,etc. Mabey thats it /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  8. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    Yeah, you're right (of course). Now that you mention it, I have done that a couple times and wondered WTF is going on?? Over the years. I have gotten pretty good at it and my techniques are actually producing some aesthetically pleasing results as opposed to the purely functional work I did back then. I don't get much practice /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif.
    The one thing he said about sweating copper (that I remember) is if it ain't clean don't waste your time putting solder on it, it just takes more time to clean it off and do it right.

    Thanks for the info /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif.
     
  9. hi pinion

    hi pinion 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    i cant stop thinking of flux being like a black hole in a can /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  10. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    Yeah, I purposely buy small quantities of flux just so it isn't hanging around too long. I had some in a can probably similar to the size you use and something went funk about it over time thus not allowing any kind of a water-tight union to be made. That was not a fun hot day. Good description of it though, I'll have to remember that one when I pass along my skills ( /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif) to my boy /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif.
     
  11. mudjunkie 82

    mudjunkie 82 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    is your flux clean, how are you applying the flux? if you are using a brush are you burning the hairs with the torch? clean the fittings well. not the outsides but the female part.(on a tee or elbow.)if it is a street ell clean the male end and also clean the female side.apply the flux in generous amounts on both the fittings and the pipe. use a med. heat, work the heat back and forth between the fitting and the pipe. touch the solder to the joint, when it is hot enough the solder will melt and flow into the joint. it is real easy, just takes a little practice /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  12. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    Ok, I think I've been overheating the fittings, and maybe not cleaning them enough. They're all friggin blackened, think that's overheated?
    I must have gotten lazy in the heat, confined space, burned hands, and stopped cleaning them that thoroughly... ALso not unreasonable to think I may have dropped a fluxed up fitting in a little sawdust while I was bleary eyed...

    $40 in fittings I'm just going to rip out and redo from scratch now /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif. It went so well in the beginning...


    Thanks for the info guys.
     
  13. spearchucker

    spearchucker 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    I used MAPP gas when I did my plumbing. It comes in a yellow canister and burns hotter than propane. All my joints came out perfect. I think heating up the copper faster at a higher temp is better than a lower heat for a longer time. Maybe Hi Pinion can shed some light on this. None of my joints were rainbow colored or burned.
    What I did was used a wire brush that is made for cleaning fittings. It comes in a plastic container, one end has a wire brush to clean the inside of the fitting, the other end cleans the outside of the pipe. Use that to make each end shiney. Then I coated each piece with with some water soluable flux. Keep your parts clean, any kind of dirt will contaminate the joint. Slide the parts together and then heat them with the MAPP gas on the outside of the fitting only, one side and then the other, don't heat the pipe. It should only take about 10 seconds to heat the joint. Touch the solder to the joint and it should be drawn in. Wipe the excess solder off with a damp rag.
    That's the way I did all the plumbing in my bathroom recently, about 50 ft worth of pipe. Not one of them leaked. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Maybe I just got lucky.
     
  14. Nonesuch

    Nonesuch 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    I could be wrong, or the guy that taught me this, but I was always told to heat the pipe that you slid into the fitting more than the fitting itself. This was explained to me like this: The heat in the pipe will pull the solder in through the seam towards the heat being applied to the pipe. Makes sense because the heat in the pipe will be looking for the closest source of air which would be through the seam in the joint.
     
  15. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    Actually you're supposed to heat the fitting. That way the fitting expands and takes the solder in, and when it contracts there is a tighter fit around the pipe.
     
  16. hi pinion

    hi pinion 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    I hate plumbing today.I dont want to even look at or talk about another peice of plumbing until tommorow. Plumbing is a pain in the butt. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  17. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    [ QUOTE ]
    I hate plumbing today.I dont want to even look at or talk about another peice of plumbing until tommorow. Plumbing is a pain in the butt. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Shut up you make good money and work for yourself. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  18. Storm Trooper

    Storm Trooper 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    Actually you are the closest. It's not that it expands the fitting as much as it's the solder flows towards the heat.
    Proper cleaning and a thin coating of flux is the way to go.
    Flux prevents the copper from oxidizing under heat as in solder will not stick to a oxidized pipe (same as not cleaning it).
    One of the most common leaks when soldering is at the top of the fitting. That's why when you apply solder to a fitting you should actually apply the solder near the base of the fitting and work towards the top on each side which builds a dam of solder up and forces it into the top of the fitting. This is more important on larger fittings and excess flux will bubble and keep solder out of fittings.
    Just thought I'd throw this at you because I think I soldered about 50+ 1-1/2" fittings today while installing a 120 gal. storage tank, rerunning a main water and fire sprinkler line today. Mummm... not one leak of course.
    I think I soldered about 500 fittings this week /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif and I'm kinda sick of it too like Hi Pinion /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  19. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    You guys rock. I cooked up about 20 joints last night and tonight, and they all sucked in the solder nice and smooth, and are not black and burnt looking...

    My dad told me the heat draws the solder in, and to heat the fitting, not the pipe. I don't know what I started doing to change that the other night, but I did some very complex and fairly blind joints tonight, and they came out looking damn near professional...

    Leak test is tomorrow after I go buy some 3/4 valves to seal terminate the branch.


    Thanks doods!
     
  20. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Hi Pinion! I\'m plumbed out!

    Ummm, I think I found your problem.


    [ QUOTE ]
    I cooked up about 20 joints last night

    [/ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif


    /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

    Glad to hear of your current success /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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