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Holley truck avenger or edelbrock 1406 modified

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by NITRO, Jan 1, 2003.

  1. NITRO

    NITRO 1/2 ton status

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    what is everyones opinion on these two. i was tihnkin about gettin the holley, but i heard they were hard to tune. iv heard the edelbrocks were awesome after u made the three mods to it including spring loaded needle seats. so whats everyones opinions??? thanx a lot

    NITRO
     
  2. milspecjimmy

    milspecjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    for an un mechainicly inclined person, any carb is hard to tune. edelbrock carbs are decent carbs. i have used them many times in the past. i have however used many holley products. what it really comes down to for me especially with the avanger series of carbs, is user friendlyness. IMO the holley avenger series is far better tuning wise and construction wise. i am not trying to put down edelbrock at all here. they have been great carbs for years. the other thing is that the holley truck avenger is designed with bouncing around, and off angles kept in mind. its designed to take off road bumps and tilts better than its brother (non avenger carbs). if i had to buy a carb for an off road truck it would be the holley. hope this helps
     
  3. florida4x4

    florida4x4 1/2 ton status

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    The float bowl design on the holley and the carter afb (performer) are a disadvantage for an off road truck and I never heard of anyone that was happy as they are with a well built and tuned quadrajet. Do the right thing and get a good quadrajet. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  4. milspecjimmy

    milspecjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    you need to go look at a holley truck avenger some time. it has a different design,in the float/bowl area. wich i know i stated in the above post.
     
  5. florida4x4

    florida4x4 1/2 ton status

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    yeah but I have heard that it still aint as good as a quadrajet. I have not seen one in action but I do know that once I got my quadrajet working right I cannot complain about anything. I get 16mpg and it never stalls or floods out in the ruff stuff.

    getting there required time reading the book by Doug Roe and lots of trial and error so it is an expensive solution in that respect /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  6. NITRO

    NITRO 1/2 ton status

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    heres the delimma, a rebuilt qjet is $280 and a new edelbrock is $240 and a new truck avenger is $350. but i was thinkin about the truck avenger cuz its already designed for offroading...and cuz 4wheel and offroad did tests and they said it did really well in their tests. o yea, my q-jet is tuned for my engine, but the floats are stickin and i dont wanna rebuild so i will just end up buying a new one...just not sure which one yet

    NITRO
     
  7. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    I wanted a holley truck adventure too but there only 670CFM thats not that big I was hoping they would make a 770 and mabe even a 870 but I havent seen it yet. My freinds run holley 750 double pumpers and dont really have flooding problems but all I hear here is they suck off the pavment.
     
  8. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> 670cfm is plenty for a moderately modified small block. If you're running a big block or a really hot small block then you might need more, but I think people tend to run carbs that have to high of a cfm rating than the other way around. </font color>
     
  9. NITRO

    NITRO 1/2 ton status

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    i know what u mean shaggy, im not worried about cfm's.

    its just that ive heard both good and bad about both and dont know which to get. im kinda on a budget and was thinkin about gettin the edelbrock and doin the mods and then have money left over for the winch. the whole thing is i get my license monday and hafta sell the snowmobile to get the money. so till then im kinda in a bind. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
    NITRO
     
  10. Blazer_Boy

    Blazer_Boy 1/2 ton status

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    Try tuning a Q-Jet, you'll never complain about a holley /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif. You have to remove 13 screws, choke linkage, vacuum pull off linkage, 2 front bolts, and the pin for the accelator pump arm. Thats just to get inside! Then you have remove the plastic cover off the fuel bowl, power piston, and float just to get to the mainjets! Tuning the mainjets is not a quicky job. The secondaries though a dream to change, just one screw. Most Q-jets are set great in stock form, so its not something you may have to do.

    Setting the mains on a holley requires removing 4 screws and the fuel line. Hard, huh? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Holleys are so popular because they're easy to tune. I think they kinda get a bum rap at times. I've found them to be very user friendly when everyhing is in shape. Wouldn't take one off-road unless it was a truck avenger though. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
     
  11. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> Nitro, I'd get the Edelbrock, I love mine after doing the mods. </font color>
     
  12. florida4x4

    florida4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Shaggy if you say your performer is fine after the mods then I have no doubts. But why purchase a $250 carb and add $150 of mods to get it to work when a $150 rebuild from &lt;your_favorite_parts_house&gt; can be modded with $25 worth of parts and some time?

    I'm not speaking from inexperience here. I have run holley's on all my street rides and loved them. I have a performer 1406 (1407?) that was on the jimmy for some time - it was not that bad but left something to be desired off road. For a while I tried everything to avoid using a quadrajet cause i just "felt" that anything else was better. Finally after getting pissed with everything else I started to tune the q-jet. It took a while to understand and get brave enough to use the drill /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif but after modifying the idle ports (drilled out to .095) I got the thing idling really nice and tuning the rest was easy, easy, easy. honestly, not as easy as the holley with the 4 screw float bowls and all that - at least I didnt get gas all over the friggin manifold like with a holley (yes I know about using a small cup yadda, yadda). You may have to pull more screws and drive the accel pump pin with a punch but the q-jet is easy enuf once you understand it. the performer is very much like the q-jet in principle except that there are two power pistons and two needle and seat to fool with. q-jet much more simple - winner of the KISS award.

    The two hardest parts about tuning my q-jet was getting a "good" needle and seat that didnt flood the engine out and tuning the idle circuit to work with my comp cam (specs something like .488/225@.050). The needle and seat that comes with cheap rebuild kits plain sux so I used a good used gm set. Then the idle channel needed to be opened up to .095 (remove the idle adjustment screw and *carefully* drill through it to the venturi bore - read up and understand what this does before you attempt it). Before I figured this idle circuit thing out I was drilling the throttle plates to add more air when I needed more fuel... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif hard lesson learned. good thing i had spare parts to replace the throttle blades. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif After that, adding the correct power valve spring made the enrichment circuit work properly with the cam. My engine has 12-14" Hg at idle and the factory power valve would cut in occasionally causing a piss poor idle (before drilling) to get even worse.

    Overall getting the q-jet tuned was hard especially cause I never did one. Holley much easier for the beginner. Perfromer about the same as a q-jet. I look back and the effort was worth it to the extreme. Q-jets ROCK!

    Another thing to look out for - whatever q-jet you rebuild make sure that the throttle shafts are not worn out and sloppy. A little air leak around the throttle shaft can cause the metering to be waaay off and you'll never get it tuned right. NAPA sells bushings that you can install yourself but I cant find the p/n right now...

    BTW there are still quite a few parts available from GM:

    POWER VALVE SPRINGS
    3Hg spring 7029922
    3Hg spring 7037851
    6Hg spring 7037305

    JETS
    .066 jet 7031966
    .067 jet 7031967
    .068 jet 7031968
    .069 jet 7031969
    .070 jet 7031970
    .071 jet 7031971
    .072 jet 7031972
    .073 jet 7031973
    .074 jet 7031974
    .075 jet 7031975
    .076 jet 7031976
    .077 jet 7031977
    .078 jet 7031978
    PRIMARY RODS (single taper)
    43 7031843
    44 7031844

    PRIMARY RODS (triple taper)
    36B 7034836
    38B 7034838
    39B 7034839
    40B 7034840
    42B 7034842
    44B 7034844
    46B 7034846
    48B 7034848
    49B 7034849
    50B 7034850

    SECONDARY RODS A B C D E F G H
    "CC" 7042356 .1347 .1236 .1129 .1024 .0599 .0300 .0300 .0300
    "BG" 7034822 .1352 .1294 .1165 .0932 .0519 .0397 .0397 .0397
    "AX" 7033549 .1339 .1294 .1075 .0807 .0419 .0419 .0397 .0397
    "DA" 7046010 .1333 .1244 .1075 .0847 .0577 .0440 .0440 .0440
    "AU" 7033655 .1345 .1291 .1154 .0927 .0527 .0527 .0527 .0527

    "CV" 7045984 .1333 .1291 .1154 .0927 .0527 .0527 .0527 .0527
    "AH" 7033812 .1345 .1291 .1154 .0927 .0727 .0527 .0527 .0527
    "CP" 7045842 .1320 .1247 .1090 .0879 .0743 .0578 .0567 .0567
    "CH" 7045779 .1350 .1292 .1157 .0957 .0847 .0697 .0567 .0567
    "DR" 17053659 .1323 .1250 .1093 .0882 .0746 .0581 .0570 .0570
    "DP" 17053531 .1325 .1267 .1137 .0945 .0829 .0721 .0686 .0686
    "AN" 7034320 .1352 .1294 .1177 .1010 .0907 .0797 .0697 .0697
    "DE" 7048092 .1337 .1305 .1191 .1010 .0883 .0874 .0874 .0874

    SECONDARY ROD HANGER
    "K" hanger 7034522
    ----
     
  13. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Go Holley Pro-Jection. I have mine for sale in the for sale forums.
     
  14. florida4x4

    florida4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Anyone considering EFI should take the time to look long and hard at retrofitting a factory system. The aftermarket stuff is just tooo expensive and inflexible. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  15. milspecjimmy

    milspecjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    what ones have you used so often to make that statement? some of the aftermarket stuff out there is so user friendly it makes factory stuff seem like a physics project. i agree something like a hilborne injection system are for more advanced users, but there are some really nice aftermarket fuel injection units out there. and you do get what you pay for.
     
  16. florida4x4

    florida4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Didnt mean to hijack the thread but for the money the factory stuff is, dare I say, more flexible and infinately better. I never found user friendly to be "infinately better" or I would prefer windows over linux... I'll stop right there /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    just like the q-jet, factory efi is ultimately the way to go. especially if you have the determiniation to learn how to manipulate it. Of course there are easier ways that will get you 90% there. /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif
     
  17. milspecjimmy

    milspecjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    ok so taking the tpi setup out of a corvette, the wiring harness, the ecu and all the sensors, is easier than opening up the holley projection box, installing it onto a motor, and hooking + - to its self contained ecu, hooking up a few simple new sensors and turning the key? and what makes a factory system tuneable? any time i have to build up a customers car i have to change almost every part of it to get it to do what i want. to say the least i have to get a new prom or have the ecu re programed. as far as tuneable, i have to get an adjustable fpr, bigger injectors, and an aftermarket setup to control those things. i put a projection setup on a mildy built 355, and it was the neatest package of TUNEABLE stuff in the world.
     
  18. florida4x4

    florida4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Never said easier did I? My point is that factory stuff is more flexable once you know what to do with it. Why would you "have to get a new prom or have the ecu re programed"? There are at least 10 different software packages to allow you to do it yourself. Some cost bux and others are totally free. Here are some links to help you out:

    http://pweb.de.uu.net/pr-meyer.h/prom.htm
    http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/other_www.html
    http://www.akmcables.com
    http://www.tunercat.com

    Anyway I just want to say this is not the easiest way to skin the cat! just the best /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  19. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    What excally do you gotta do to a edelbrock 1406?
     
  20. NITRO

    NITRO 1/2 ton status

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    im pickin the edelbrock up on my way home from work tomorrow /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    NITRO
     

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