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Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by MudFrog, Nov 29, 2002.

  1. MudFrog

    MudFrog 1/2 ton status

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  2. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    Riiiight. How much that guy spent on getting the Hummer suspension to work makes it out of reach for 99% of the world.

    And it's a good thing they have an onboard welder, if a rock reaches up ad grabs one of the arms, they are gonna need it /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

    There was an IFS rig that competed in Farmington, IIRC, IFS, IRS, Northstar aluminum engine, and it didn't do well at all. The suspension looks very simular.
     
  3. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    I wouldn't laugh too hard. Pat Gremillion is known world wide for his Premier welders and has built some very, very capable off road machines.
    I would bet this rig you see on the link can/will flex as good, if not better, than any K5 on this site. He has ran with the best of the crawlers, especially Shannon Campbell, whom builds Jeeps.
     
  4. Mr.Chevy4x4

    Mr.Chevy4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    You guys kill me with the SFA or crap attitude. Obviously there is a reason independent suspension was invented and is still in use. I'm sure y'all are way smarter than any of the design engineers who develope this stuff. They couldn't possibly know anything about suspension since that is what they get paid to do????? /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

    I like my D60, but I would LOVE to have the ground clearance that truck has that a solid axle truck will NEVER have! /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif


    Mike
     
  5. MudFrog

    MudFrog 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    I didn't say IFS sucks... I said I don't see it becoming the new wave of rock crawling. It's great on the street, I know that for a fact but it would suck off road in my old trucks.
     
  6. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    Well, this could be an in-depth discussion. Yes it could, and no it couldn't.

    First off, IFS would be better in the rocks with the ground clearance, the ability to put the whole tire tread on an obstacle, compared to "/" angles that don't have the same traction.

    But with IFS comes the $$$ aspect. That's what it takes to engineer one of these vehicles to survive; therefore right now, going SFA is the cheaper and easier and fastest way to get into the rocks.

    If the sport gets huge and a lot of $$$ starts coming in, big money sponsorships and such, then you'll start seeing guys with IFS come in and tearing it up, and that will push out the little guy.
     
  7. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    I can see IFS becoming reality in the rock crawling world. All you have to do is fabricate the A-arms to be longer than stock and utilize them with a narrow frame and you will have lots of flex.
    Take a look at Gremillions Shark. Check out the length of the A-arms. The cv-shaft would need to be custom made to a longer length in order to prevent the binding.
    Also notice the A-arms and cv shafts are almost perfectly horizontal of one another. Another reason for the success in flexing. If the Shark had some XX-amount of lift on it, the cv shafts would be limited to the flexibility. Leave it horizontal and the flexing will be equal when it moves up and down. Make them longer and the flexing will be outrageous. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    Maybe its time someone on CK5 did some experimenting and fabbed some A-arms and employed cv shafts with a custom frame, too, to get more flex. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  8. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    Here's a pic of a 4wd Toyota
    [​IMG]
    Now this picture is of a 2wd truck, but you can see what has been done to get mongo travel out of IFS. It's a midengine setup.
    There is one thing I forgot in my last post. Think about the Hummer, it's 4 wheel independant suspension, and it can take a beating of GI proportions and keep on going.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    who's laughing? and who has this IFS hating crap?

    If you are building a "non-comp" rig, IFS costs too much to do too little.

    with Uber-$$$ applications, you can make a tank do well in rockcrawling if you throw enuff money at it. The point remains that those arms are in hamrs way. I have not seen any action shots of this "land shark" yet, but the IFS rig that has competed with the Heeps and 'Yotas did not fare well.

    When i see this thing up there with Schaffer and the like, it might change my mind. Until then, its a cool uber-high-buck machine.
     
  10. muddysub

    muddysub 1 ton suburban status Staff Member Moderator GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    i wouldn't laugh too much, petersons covered it a month or 2 ago and they were saying it went anywhere as axle rig went. i could see it catching on. the IFS and IRS on "SUVs" today is made for street manners but the IFS and IRS on say my 03 POLARIS sportsman 700 twin (that's a quad or four wheeler for those who are lost in the world) can flex very well and get over things that straight axle quads could only dream of. look at desert race trucks. trophy trucks have IFS and 34" of travel! if you rock crawled those you'de be starting something i bet. you'd be the talk of the 4x4 world and people would take interest and follow the new trend. at one point in time i'm sure some one thought this small lift and big tire trend was stupid, this starts out as something that won't catch on, but look out, i think this will change the way things are done in the crawling world.
     
  11. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

    You guys kill me with the SFA or crap attitude. Obviously there is a reason independent suspension was invented and is still in use. I'm sure y'all are way smarter than any of the design engineers who develope this stuff. They couldn't possibly know anything about suspension since that is what they get paid to do?????

    [/ QUOTE ] Keep in mind that those engineers are designing the suspenion for on road not off road.
     
  12. Mr.Chevy4x4

    Mr.Chevy4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    So the H1 was designed for on road use???????/ /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif


    Mike
     
  13. TheLakeRat

    TheLakeRat 1/2 ton status

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    PAt had that thing at Top Truck Challange this year and i got to see it in Action.
    WHile i was impressed with the vehicle it wasn't with the IFS setup. Personally i think that was one of the things that limited the vehicle. It had very little flex with the IFS and was wanting me to build him a ram that wouldn't bend while he was trying to steer. The problem was with the angle of the TRE it was constantly bending parts..
    What made it such an good wheeler was the fact that it was light, had a completely smooth belly so that it could just slide over the rocks and then the portal axles gave him clearance to get over the rocks.
    I watched him drive it through the Mini Rubicon and it never had more than 3 tires on the ground at any 1 time, but he also never got hung up or had to stop. He just walked right through it.
    IFS is a great suspention design for certain applications, but in my honest opinion it sucks for rock crawlin.
    Tell your buddy that the next wave for rock crawlin is Portal axles not IFS
     
  14. muddysub

    muddysub 1 ton suburban status Staff Member Moderator GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    So the H1 was designed for on road use???????/

    [/ QUOTE ] the H1 was designed to take a beating. it doesn't really do that well in a lot of stiuations.
     
  15. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    Basicly yes it was, not paved roads, but roads none the less. It was designd so 19 yr olds would not roll it like they were doing w/ the M151 MUTT. It was designed to be the one truck that would do all, instead of having a jeep type, a high GRVW P/U type, &amp; a comand car type. The HMMWV is not the be all, end all wheeler.
     
  16. prerunner1982

    prerunner1982 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    bigjbear is quite correct.. the hmmwv can be a very capable vehicle in the right hands.. it was built as an all around vehicle.. not a wheeler.. it have seen them do some amazing things.. i even spent 3 days mudding in them.. one weak point on the H1 is the front CV boots.. cant go through much without tearing on of them.. i have gotten to the point where a half shaft can be changed in about 15-20 out in the field.. i like the rock crawler.. and with enough $$$ anything can be fabricated.. and yes even ifs/irs rock crawlers..
     
  17. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    Re: Holy crap.. IFS New wave of rock crawling? Haha

    The H1 is a completely different story. I do belive that the H1 was designed for military use. The IFS I was refering to is that in the newer GM trucks. I would say it is different than that or the H1
     
  18. Depdog

    Depdog 1/2 ton status Author

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    I was not going to get into this, but do have a few comments. The H1 was designed to survive in the military as a jack of all trades vehicle. Drive one off road and then tell me what you think of it. Beat you to death, noisey, cramped and NO POWER. Its good in certain places, but rock crawling aint one of its strong points.

    Depdog
     
  19. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    No doubt, everyone wants to drive it once. Then they want their CUCV back. At least thats the way it was 10 yrs ago. (Crap, I'm getting old)
     
  20. who says ifs cant flex??
    [​IMG]
    thats about 6.5" off the gound, and 12" wheel base which gives over a 1500 rti score at 20 degrees /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    just messing with u guys
     

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