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Home Security

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by newyorkin, Jan 11, 2004.

  1. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    I'm wondering what your thoughts are on home security... I asked this maybe a year ago and got a bunch of real good PM's, but along the course of my house's perpetual construction, I still haven't implemented a lot of them yet... TIA y'all!

    Now a trashy part of the in-law family is gettin loud again, so security is back on the front burner... They know I won't hesitate to shoot to kill an intruder, so I'm not that worried about them, they just reminded me, I'm only covered by basics right now... I have a big dog that can get mean, a fairly quickly-accessible rifle my wife is "trained" on (term used loosely; she's still never fired a round), but those are post-entry solutions, and I have very few intrusion-preventors right now.
    I'm wondering what you guys would put in if you were designing a system from scratch, and you were designing it with the intent to keep out very intelligent people that can defeat simple systems (never underestimate your opponent!). In a sense, become the intruder yourself, and find ways to defeat conventional systems.

    Money's no object for design, but will be for implementation, so the "build an underground generator and a panic room in the front yard like this:" idea is very welcome, but probably won't happen til NY lottery makes a deposit for me...
     
  2. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    a moat filled with mutated sea bass. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  3. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    teach the wife to fire that rifle.. buy a handgun for the nightstand..

    start with a good security system, and place the control pad somewhere towards the middle of the house, so that it will go off long enough to wake you up, at least until a "smart intruder" gets to it and turns it off. or maybe even hide the control pad behind something.. im not old enough to own any handguns myself, and i still live at home, so i rely on an arsenal of baseball bats and maglights.. big knives, and just being a grumpy SOB when my sleep is interrupted by someone who shouldnt be interrupting it.. hell someone stopped outside the house and was, sadly enough looking at my truck in the middle of the night, my mom saw them, and yelled for me.. so up and out with a baseball bat, they were gone.. some people just need to know you have the means for defense to be scared enough to leave you alone..
    we have security tint on the windows here, can see out perfectly night or day, but its near impossible to see in.. ADT installed...
    we have an ADT system, but dont use it anymore for the reason it malfunctioned enough to have the control pulled off the wall..

    so with that said.. security tint that keeps peoples eyes out, and the glass from shattering
    a GOOD security system
    you have the dog
    now add firearms..


    [/novel off]
     
  4. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    There are alot of services for home security, If I move back to the city, I'll probley go with one where they monitor the house, and call if they dectect anything, and send the cops out.
     
  5. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    aka brinks/adt..
     
  6. unick

    unick 1/2 ton status

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    safety is a loaded gun
     
  7. skratch

    skratch 1/2 ton status

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    One simple and often overlooked things would be the vegitation under your windows.

    Get some very stiff, spikey plants under the windows, the kind you really don't want to stand in to try to force a window open.

    Motion sensetive lighting, around the whole house.

    On the inside, motion sensors in the house can be set to not go off for certain size objects (like cats or dogs) just gotta remember them when you go for the midnight snack.
    Audio glass break sensors are the best style.

    The window film is really good stuff since it won't let the glass shatter.

    Use a grage door opener that rotates codes every time it get used (keep the techies from getting the door open)

    Hmmm, if I think of anything else I'll post it.
     
  8. big k5

    big k5 Registered Member

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    I"m not trying to vear of the subject of HOME security,but after reading your post the first thing i thought of was something they taught us in the military overseas.Being aware of your surroundings (naturally)say your wife is out driving around in the city or anyplace for that matter.When she pulls up at the stop light ,stop sighn,ect.NEVER pull up too close to the car in front of you.ALWAYS leave yourself a way OUT.
    I also think the sharp prickly bushes under the windows is a great idea.I plan on doing that uder my teenage daughters windows to discourage any potential boyfriends
     
  9. RATAH

    RATAH 1/2 ton status

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  10. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    The cool thing about ADT is ours has a code you can punch in that turns off the alarm but acts like a silent 911 to the cops. You can't even turn it off verbaly the cops have to show up.

    The other thing you could try is a surplus claymore behind a picture...that will ruin there day.
     
  11. mudjunkie 82

    mudjunkie 82 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I have A.D.T If they make it by that then it is Mr.Ruger 9mm and Mr. Shot Gun with OO" buckshot. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  12. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    When she pulls up at the stop light ,stop sighn,ect.NEVER pull up too close to the car in front of you.ALWAYS leave yourself a way OUT

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, funny, thanks to my aggressive driving habits in younger/faster days when I'd unintentionally piss off other drivers, the above is an unconscious habit now...

    I've been reading a lot of self defense/USMC combat and marksmanship manuals. I love that stuff... Lots of things you never thought of...
     
  13. rick88blaze

    rick88blaze 1/2 ton status

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    how about a bunch of empty cans tied onto a string, and then to the door? cheap, and noisy!! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  14. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    since we're going conspiracy theory style with the cans on a string.. why not put an empty beer bottle (if you dont drink, chevyfumes will donate to the cause im sure) upside down ontop of the doorknob..?
     
  15. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    On the subject of ADT Alarm Systems. (or any others)

    I know you will all think I'm nuts, just like the police and the DA did but I proved this using ADT's own alarm trigger records...

    I had an in-home shop where I repaired fax, printer and copier machines. One day the alarm went off which also sends me a digital message on the pager. I was 2 blocks away when I got the alarm. By the time I got home, (maybe 3 minutes) the cops were there. The front door to the shop was open. All the equipment had been moved from the work benches to the floor. Still plugged in. The cops said it was a good thing I had an alarm because they were ready to run around and cut all the cords and run off with the equipment.

    After checking the rest of the house I found that the window in the living room had been forced open with the screen cut. I was curious as to where the first alarm went off at the monitoring station so I called ADT and asked for the printed report. It said that the front door alarm went off first and then the motions sensors in the living room.

    Now I got to wondering about the sequence of events. Why would the burgalars enter through the front door and then go outside and cut the screen to the living room window and force the window open if they were already in? It didn't make sense untill I figured it all out.

    Here's what I figured out using the report.

    Someone at the monitoring station had to have turned my alarm system off allowing entry through the window to go undetected. They broke in through the living room window, moved all my equipment to the floor to make it look like a break in and attempted robery and then called into the monitoring station to let the monitor person know they were about to leave who then reactivated the system. They left through the front door (which had not been tampered with) and that activated the alarm.

    On the printout report there was no mention of the living room sensor ever being triggered. Yet the way they entered the house was right underneath that motion sensor. There is no way to get from that window to my shop without setting it off. There was also no mention of the motion sensor in the shop going off untill seconds before the front door alarm was activated. This proves that they were already in the shop when the motion sensor went off and they opened the front door just seconds later. It tells me that someone in the control/monitoring station was manipulating the alarm at will. All this would take is a cell phone call to the monitoring station to let the control monitor know that they were finished setting me up and were about to leave. The timing on the printout proves all this.

    Why would they do this you ask? To sell more alarm systems on my block! You see, they send in a couple of guys to stage a break in, they control the alarm while these guys are breaking in and setting me up and then leave. The cops show up in the nick of time and the alarm did it's job right? So I attract a lot of attention from the neighbors and of course have the sign out front that says "Protected By ADT". I claim to the neighbors how great of an idea it was to have the system installed and thus it sells more systems. Nothing was stolen and all is fine and dandy....

    When I proved what had actually happended using thier own records, all my money was refunded and no charges were filed against ADT. This was done because the DA said I didn't really have a good case of fraud. I needed to catch them in the act. Ya right... I found the place down the street where the culprits hung out while waiting for me to leave the house. I proved by the timing on the report that they entered through the window first and then left through the front door which had never been tampered with. How much more proof did I need? Anyways, my next alarm system was the addition of two more dogs. But after that, I was broken into at least five more times. They got past the dogs by macing them. I finally moved to another location... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Just a word to the wise, never trust your belongings to someone else. A lot of crooks out there are wearing suits and ties to work.... /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  16. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    things that would annoy me if I was trying to enter a house...

    1) a relatively high (4-5') perimeter fence. Chainlink would be best, because while scaling one isnt hard, scaling one without making ANY noise is. You dog has hella good hearing, and someone climbing a fence will almost certainly alert him. A gated driveway is a good thing also, this forces the intruder to actually scale a wall/fence or something just to get up to your house. Thats additional risk that many theives find isn't worth it... I mean if you get 5' past the fence and realize that the owner is waiting with a 12ga or there are dogs... ur gonna have to haul azz back and try and scale the fence again... real PITA. Gates/fences make it so the criminal cant just walk up to your house to check things out, they have to commit, and thats a good thing for the homeowner.

    2) motion sensing lights that sense people a long ways from the house. These are good because who knows if the light was turned on by a person or a computer chip. Light is a bad thing for someone trying to be stealthy. I think the key with proper exterior lighting is 2 fold. 1) lights the exterior of the house up well so people trying to force entry are clearly visible by the street, to neighbors or passerbyers etc. 2) comes on when the bad guy is a LONG ways from the house itself... this is useful because the tendancy to retreat and try a neighbors house will be much more likely if the light comes on when the guy is 2' inside your property line than if he is 5' from the house where the tendancy might be to hide in some bushes and hunker down or something to try and wait it out.

    3) a good and big dog. Can't think of any sane person that wants to mess with a big pissed off dog. Even if you are able to neutralize or kill the dog, everyone and their brother is going to hear it cause dogs always bark like crazy. Thats the BEST case scenario if you are an intruder... worse being the home owner has a couple of rotts or dobbermans or something and your life is literally at risk. Either way its bad times and dogs are certainly a homeowners best friend when it comes to security.

    4) a good alarm system that alerts the fuzz or a security service when it has been breached. I dont know much about specific systems so I dont have much to add other than that... they are a good idea though. I think alarms are especially valuable becuase many of the other deterants/defenses dont offer much protection when you are not at home. If someone is "casing" your house, they know those security lights are just motion sensing and it wont deter them. Sorta the same with a barking dog, if someones dog 2 houses down is barking, its not like they are gonna run over to check it out. The alarm system is "on duty" when you are not around, and thats prolly the most important thing about 'em.

    5) cameras. even if you can get entry and steal stuff, its all for naught if a camera is watching and you're going to get busted anyway. A few well placed motion activating cameras supplemented by a few of those fake-but-real-looking cameras would deter me. Last thing I need is to be getting ready to watch my newly "aquired" HDTV big screen and have the fuzz show up.

    6) guns. An armed person inside the house is the last resort. maybe the intruder is a psycho or a criminal hiding from the cops in hor persuit... who knows, point is dogs and alarms arent scaring him away. Last option is the gun armed home owner. For the best home defense, the owner should train with their gun as much as is possible... including dry fire runs etc in the house itself, at night when its dark. Think about positions in your home that would be good to hunker down in if you are going to find yourself shooting at an intruder who vary well may shoot back. A couch prolly isnt going to offer much protection from bullets.. but that wood stove or fridge, or washer or whatever might. Thinking about tactics and possible scenarios (he comes in the back door... he comes in this window over here etc etc) will put you at significant advantage over the bad guy who (hopefully) doesnt know crap about the layout of your house or your location. Also consider the materials your house is made out of, and the locations of loved ones or neighbors when choosing a weapon and ammo. If you lived in a mobile home park or apartment, you arent gonna wanna blast away with 12ga slugs or 00 buck or something... ur gonna want some big bird shot or a 45 with low velocity heavy hollowpoints or something. Next worse thing to being taken out in a gun battle with an attacker would be accidentally killing a loved one or innocent neighbor with bullets flying through thin walls etc.

    7) a phone. may sound dumb but not everyone has a phone near the bed they sleep in, if ya dont, get one. Calling 911 is certainly the first thing you'd want to do before you go and do anything crazy with an intruder in your home.

    8) as suggested by someone else, stickery/nasty bushes below vulnerable windows could certainly deter that particular window as being a point of entry. Keep in mind though that bad guys will want to use bushes for concealment from prying eyes, so try and keep these bushes well trimmed etc.

    9) locks. Few things will deter entry through your doors better than a good solid door with solid locks. My parents old house had a steel door and a pretty serious deadbolt system. Hard to imagine someone actually trying to intrude through that point of entry unless they used a "knock and attack" type move when you open the door. Avoid having a large glass opening right near a door. I see so many people use beefy doors/locks only to have a glass winder right by the door... DUH... the guy is gonna break the glass and open the door, there went the usefulness of the locks. lol! anyway, sliding glass doors are notoriously easy to open just because of the way they are designed. Many have cheesy locks which compounds the problem. The simple dowel-in-the-track trick is a good idea and cheap too. Naturally, the glass could still be broken, but that ought to set off ur alarm, alert your dog, and alert you as well unless you sleep like the dead. If all else fails with windows, there is always the inner-city option of using a steel bar system. Some of these arent all that unattractive and will almost certainly deny access... just not worth messing with for a criminal, even if they can be breached it just causes too much noise to do so.

    10) lastly, think about your own homes vulnerabilities. Look at each ground floor window/door and consider how it might be defended. How should lights be placed to illuminate them? How would a criminal get in a given window? What might stop him? Sorta like the gun thing, thinking about how things would actually happen can help give you a big advantage. This info can be furthered when you hear about other break ins... how they happened and what might have stopped them etc. I remember there was a case where a bad guy knocked on someones door and they were waiting with a 12ga when the homeowner opened it. Bad times... but knowing about it ahead of time gives the good guys the advantage. We can use peep-holes, windows above the entry, cameras or other things to help defeat a given kind of attack.

    ok, thats all i can think of, good idea for a thread... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    j
     
  17. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    as far as stuff in front of the windows.. try and think on that same plane when you are setting up furniture inside.. stuff in front of the windows that will make plenty of noise if disturbed.. you know, picture frames on tables, etc..
     
  18. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

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    Damn, dude. Good post. I see that the topic of home secutity/defense comes up every so often here. I think your post pretty much covered it all. Nice job. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  19. RATAH

    RATAH 1/2 ton status

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    Great idea's jekbrown
    i have 2 female rottweilers
    (that hate strangers)
    and also use this program
    http://www.homewatcher.com/
    with my
    2 pc's down stairs and 1 pc upstairs
    im also armed with a mossberg 12ga
    and a 50cal Traditions
    FYI http://www.homewatcher.com/
    has a free version /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    check it out peeps its neat little program
     
  20. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Yes, excellent post, thanks!!
     

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