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how do I P.T.O.? MileMarker/Warn

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by owen, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. owen

    owen 1/2 ton status

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    Ivg got a 700R with a NP208. How or what do I do to install a PTO winch? Pros and cons? Where should I start shopping?
     
  2. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    [ QUOTE ]
    How or what do I do to install a PTO winch?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You don't, because neither the 700R4 nor the NP 208 have PTO outputs. There are really no cons to a PTO winch except that it's hard to install and expensive and that they don't work if the engine is off. The pros are that they're generally much more potent than any kind of winch so they'll pull you out of anything.

    If you want to run a PTO, swap in a 4 speed, a 205, or both. I am not sure if the 203 has the output but I don't think so. I know the 205 and 4 speed sure do.
     
  3. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    203 has a PTO port as well.

    you can run a few things with PTO. generators, hydraulic pumps, and winches come to mind first. another way for the winch is a hydraulic pump on the t-case or tranny and then a hydraulic winch.

    just an idea for thinking depending on how far you are taking your rig. i plan on rear stear way down the road. i only want to be able to use it while im on the trail. so i will use a hyd pump on the tranny. then i can ONLY use rear ster if i not only hook up the system, but enguage the PTO.

    Grant
     
  4. RustBuket

    RustBuket 1/2 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    I think a PTO winch would be the SHIZNIT! Some of them have like 100 000 lb pull rating.
     
  5. owen

    owen 1/2 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    ok... 4 speed is out. Banging gears suck. I couldnt play a drum with one stick, much less keep both hands on the wheel and one on the shifter! But a transfercase swap is within reason. The 700 has a good first gear, and I am not sure about the gearing in a 203 or 205. Would it be an easy swap? Are the gears as steep? Does that even matter if I am mud slinging and hill climbing? Lets compare: 208 vs 203 vs 205 We will get into rear steering in our next thread!
     
  6. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    rear steer, on mud/hillclimbing to me would be somewhat of a waste, lots of things more worthwhile first. Yeah i know next thread. The 203 and 205 are about 2:1 gear ratio vs the 2.6:1 ratio of the 208. For mud and hills the lower ratio may actually be preferable. More wheelspeed = good thing.
     
  7. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    208 has a bit steaper gearing.
    to do the swap you have 2 options.
    swap a shorter output shaft into your 700r. requires removing the tranny and rebuilding it basicaly.

    option two is a spacer. about 3/4 inch thick. im not sure who makes them, but it spaces the t-case adaptor from the tranny.

    in my eyes this is abetter way for a riny bit of space for the front drive shaft.

    once that is done you can swap in a 205 or 203 off a th350. i wuold recomend the 205 as it has more options. you can twin stick it, it is lighter, and all gear.
    Grant
     
  8. A&P

    A&P Registered Member

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    All you need to do for that is get a 203 (th350 Version) with the adapter from that setup. This is because, the adapter is only an inch thick, and that's what the other T-case will take. The splines will line up. You'll also need a new driveshaft, and shifter setup. Also, get a rolling tranny lift, or strap the balls on, cause that case is nearly 300 lbs. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif That should be it. Then start shopping for the PTO accessories.
     
  9. owen

    owen 1/2 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    do all my PTO options shaft out of the rear? No front mount PTO winch? The generator thing does sound sweet! Maybe we should also compare ele. vs hyd winches! (sorry for so many exclamation marks, but I am thrilled I found you guys! this is great!)
     
  10. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    Neither the 203 nor the 205 came behind the 700 in stock configuation. That's all fine and dandy that you don't want to swap trannies, but just keep in mind that you'll have to do a little more work than your average joe.

    There are people here with 700R4s and NP 205s. I believe jekbrown has that setup. There are two basic choices. You can use an aftermarket tailshaft in your transmission to bolt it up to a TH 350 style 27 spline NP 205 (which is a rare setup but it does exist) or you can use a spacer plate with your current tailshaft and run it. I'm not sure who sells the spacer, but it's out there and someone else will chime in with where to get one. Either way, your end result will be the same...except if you use the spacer, your setup will be longer than it would have been, so you'll need a longer front and shorter rear driveshaft.

    I have never heard of anyone putting an NP 203 behind a 700R4. Maybe someone has and can be of better help. The NP 203 is the right spline (27) in its most popular version though.

    Gearing in the 203 and 205 is approximately 2:1. A 208 is 2.61:1. A 241 is 2.72:1. Does that matter for mud? Not really. For hillclimbs? Depends, but probably doesn't matter with the low gear that a 700R4 offers.

    203:

    Full time, cast iron, 1.98:1 low, chain driven, strong, comes most commonly in 27 spline but is available in 32 and 10 spline versions All fixed yoke outputs uses 10W30 for lubricant

    205:

    Part time, cast iron, 1.96:1, gear driven, strongest transfercase ever put in our trucks, available in 10, 27, and 32 spline versions. I'd say that the 32 spline is the most common, but 10 spline is pretty common too, while 27 spline is the least common and only available certain model years. Most commonly has fixed yoke, but is available with slip yoke as well. uses gear oil in earlier versions or ATF in some later versions

    208:

    part time, Aluminum, chain driven. 2.62:1 low range weakest case of the bunch but seems to hold up fine as long as you dont bash it off a rock or something. Comes in 27 spline and 32 spline versions and was found behind TH 350 in a few trucks and very commonly in 700R4, SM 465, and TH 400 trucks. Uses ATF and ALL are slip yokes and there is no slip yoke elimiator kit available for this case although it's do-able with Dodge parts.

    I know I'm forgetting something so someone else can take it from here.
     
  11. dhdescender

    dhdescender 1/2 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    195lbs Dry.
     
  12. trukman1

    trukman1 1/2 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    Owen, I purchased a front mounted PTO/winch bumper from a friend. It mounts the Chelsae gear unit to my NP205 t-case then has a chain that turns a sprocket mounted on a tractor shaft with a knuckle that allows a second shaft to angle up to the winch. That shaft is also attached to the foremost crossmember using a pillow block. At first I had my doubts about the strength of the setup till I saw it in action!!! Then I just had to have it! That thing pulled harder than any winch I'd ever used. It is rated at 12,000# and actually came off a big grain truck. I'm keeping my 8,000# electric in the back. Trukman1
     
  13. owen

    owen 1/2 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    dude... that sounds complicated! Is that any tougher than MileMarkers 12,500lb hyd? It sure sounds easier and maybe even cheaper than the grain truck route. But I guess you cant say "yeah, I just pulled it off my grain/parts truck at the house" if you went the easy way! Dont see many MileMarkers out there. Any one with a review?
     
  14. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    [ QUOTE ]
    dude... that sounds complicated! Is that any tougher than MileMarkers 12,500lb hyd? It sure sounds easier and maybe even cheaper than the grain truck route. But I guess you cant say "yeah, I just pulled it off my grain/parts truck at the house" if you went the easy way! Dont see many MileMarkers out there. Any one with a review?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why can't you just run an electric winch?
     
  15. owen

    owen 1/2 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    because everyone runs an electric winch. I have smoked one, and one of my friends. If electric was superior, I would hane electric steering instead of hyd. Ever thought about that!? I just like to do my resarch. Sometimes that requires taking the road less traveled!
     
  16. BIGJ

    BIGJ 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    Most people run electrics because they are really the best choice for general wheeling. Short small pulls are usually all that's needed to get a vehicle out of most situations. Wost case the battery gets drained, and you can always throw in another in an emergency if you're wheeling with another vehicle. If you really need to do a LOT of pulling, then go with PTO or a MM. A LOT of pulling would mean pulling several minutes at a time. Be prepared though, the MM are really SLOW, I mean really, really, really, slow. And, most PTO boxes are going to hang down pretty far and take away ground clearance. Not to mention the linkage can be a pain to hook up when running the winch to the front. Don't get me wrong, PTO's have their place, and are very durable winches. It's just more trouble than it's worth for most types of wheeling.

    The last time I saw a truck with a PTO winch, he had flopped his vehicle and couldn't winch out of the situation. No running motor, no winch. He was there for 5+ hours, in a decent sized ditch, before we came along. One quick pull with my winch and he was back on four wheels.

    BIGJ
     
  17. blasterD

    blasterD 1/2 ton status

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    Re: how do I P.T.O.???

    Here is a spacer to use a 203 or 205 behind a 700r4.
    http://www.exaxt.ca/misc.asp

    I bought one but have not installed it yet. Mac was very helpful and the part arrived on time. IMHO this is better than using a shorter output shaft on your 700r4. The extra space you get allows better clearance between the front driveshaft and the Transmission pan.
     

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