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Discussion in 'The Garage' started by mrk5, Jul 15, 2004.

  1. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    14bSF with 6 lugs? I've found one at a local yard that I can pick up for about $150. It's in excellent condition, but it doesn't have the gears I'm looking for.

    I'm planning to regear in the future anyways and I was going to use the 10b and 12b I have now. I was just thinking maybe the 14bSF would be better than the 12b. Or should I sit tight and wait for a 14bSF to come through with 4.10s?

    For the FF guys, I've done some brake upgrades and replaced numerous parts on the front axle I have now and I don't want to loose those to go to 8lug.

    What's the difference between the open and semi-floating differentials?
     
  2. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    The weight of the vehicle in a full floater rides entirely on the axle housing. Leaving the axle itself to deal with only the power created by the drive train.

    A semifloater on the other hand will apply some weight of the vehicle not only to the axle housing but also to the axle itself.

    Side benefit of the FF design is if you ever were to snap an axle shaft, You could very possibly continue forward. A semifloater snapping a shaft and the wheel likes to come off with the broken part of axle shaft.
     
  3. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What's the difference between the open and semi-floating differentials?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Those are 2 totally different things.

    Click here to read about open vs locking diffs

    I got this from Dynatrac's Website. It covers semi-floating vs. full-floating and reverse cut vs. standard cut:

    Full-Floating vs. Semi-Floating

    Any drive axle must be capable of performing two functions: Support the weight of the vehicle safely and transmit power to the wheels for propulsion. By design, all steering (front) drive axles are full-floating, but rear drive axles may be semi-floating or full-floating.

    Semi-Floating

    The semi-floating axle design fastens the wheel directly to the flange on the outboard end of the axle shaft and a single bearing supports the outer end of the shaft. The axle shaft has to support the weight on the axle and the propulsion forces from the engine twisting it. The semi-floater is standard on most sport-utilities, half-ton and light-duty 3/4-ton pickups. This Dynatrac design is lighter and less expensive than a full-floating axle, and suitable for 5/6 lug wheel applications up to 4500 GAWR.

    Full-Floating

    In this design, the wheel is fastened to a separate hub which rotates on two large, opposing, tapered roller bearings secured to a spindle on the outer ends of the axle housing. All of the weight is carried on the hub and two large hub bearings, while the axle shaft goes through the hub and handles only the twisting force from the engine. With more than double the bearing area, and no bending forces acting on the axle shaft, the full-floater is standard in most 3/4-ton HD and 1-ton pickups. It is the design of choice for heavy payloads or trailers, big-block and turbo diesel engines, and very large tires, up to 10,000 GAWR.

    Which is Better?

    Full-floating setups are a must for 3/4-ton and heavier trucks, and a good idea for 1/2-ton trucks that haul a lot of weight, tow heavy trailers, or see severe 4WD use. However, except for Dynatrac custom axles, virtually all factory full-floating rear ends use 8 lug wheels, so if you have invested heavily in 5- or 6-lug wheels, you may be better off having us construct a rear axle for you. Dynatrac specializes in custom Dana 60, 70 and 80 rear axles in full-floating and semi-floating versions to fit a broad range of trucks from Jeeps® to 1-tons.

    Reverse Cut vs. Standard Cut

    Perhaps the single most misunderstood axle term is reverse cut, often mistakenly referred to as reverse rotation. A reverse cut housing is not a standard cut housing turned upside down, it is a specially designed housing. The term "reverse cut" refers to the direction of the spiral cut in the ring gear, which is opposite that of a standard cut ring gear: Contrary to popular belief, it does not run backwards or in reverse. The principle behind a reverse cut is to strengthen the operation of the gear when it is used for a front driving axle application.

    Hi-pinion or reverse-cut axles have also become very popular as rear driving axles in short wheelbase vehicles with suspension lifts because the higher pinion improves drive line angles so well. Dynatrac was among the first to pioneer this application and continues to offer the very best and strongest Hi-pinion axles available anywhere.

    Standard-cut axles are often used as the front driving axles because of clearance issues, gear ratio availability, cost, or suspension considerations. However comparable reverse-cut axles have the distinct advantage of overall ring and pinion gear strength.

    Reverse-cut axles should be used in the rear when higher ground clearance, reduced drive shaft angles or short wheelbase are desirable issues. Reverse-cut rear axles should be avoided for heavy GVW vehicles or heavy highway towing. Dynatrac has thoroughly tested Dana 44 reverse-cut, and Ford 8.8 reverse-cut, rear axles and found them to be weak and prone to failure in all but the very, very lightest duty applications. We can only recommend Dynatrac’s proven Dana 60 reverse-cut design as unquestionably dependable even under adverse situations.

    The gear sets used in each type of axle are not interchangeable: Standard cut gears cannot be used in place of reverse cut, and vice versa. The housings, which have different lubrication passages, are also not interchangeable. However, differential cases (open, l/s, or locker) are compatible with both styles, as long as case spline count matches the axle shaft.
     
  4. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    So is a 12b really a semi-float? And a 14bSF is also open?

    Because "open" refers to the carrier and "semi-floating" refers to the axle shafts.
     
  5. ugly_blazer

    ugly_blazer 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Or should I sit tight and wait for a 14bSF to come through with 4.10s?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You may have to wait a while, I think that 3.42 was put in most of the trucks.
     
  6. ugly_blazer

    ugly_blazer 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So is a 12b really a semi-float? And a 14bSF is also open?

    Because "open" refers to the carrier and "semi-floating" refers to the axle shafts.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    12b and 14b can be either open or locking. The 12b is semi-float, 14b can be semi-float or full-float.
     
  7. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    12b and 14b can be either open or locking. The 12b is semi-float, 14b can be semi-float or full-float.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Got it! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    So a 14bSF is stronger than the 12b, right?
     
  8. ugly_blazer

    ugly_blazer 1/2 ton status

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    Yes, the 14 is stronger than the 12. The ring, pinion, and carrier are larger. I haven't actually worked on a 14sf, but I would guess that the axleshafts are larger than they are on the 12 bolt.
     
  9. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So a 14bSF is stronger than the 12b, right?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What kind of wheeling will you be doing ? The 14bsf is stronger than a 12 bolt , but is still a semi floating axle . I personally would run the 12 bolt on my own truck until I kill it ( at one time I wanted 1 tons ) , others would have you run a 14bff . /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  10. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    14bSF with 6 lugs? I've found one at a local yard that I can pick up for about $150. It's in excellent condition, but it doesn't have the gears I'm looking for.

    I'm planning to regear in the future anyways and I was going to use the 10b and 12b I have now. I was just thinking maybe the 14bSF would be better than the 12b. Or should I sit tight and wait for a 14bSF to come through with 4.10s?

    For the FF guys, I've done some brake upgrades and replaced numerous parts on the front axle I have now and I don't want to loose those to go to 8lug.

    What's the difference between the open and semi-floating differentials?

    [/ QUOTE ] Don't count the 14 bolt FF out yet. You can always use a 8 to 6 lug adaptor, witch will also line your rear tires up with the fronts.
     
  11. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What kind of wheeling will you be doing ? The 14bsf is stronger than a 12 bolt , but is still a semi floating axle . I personally would run the 12 bolt on my own truck until I kill it ( at one time I wanted 1 tons ) , others would have you run a 14bff .

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm starting to lean that direction. I just went back to the yard to measure a couple of things. I'd have to move spring perches and shock mounts. Plus there is some sort of perch just inside of the spring perches that would also have to be removed. Looking like more work than I want to do for an axle that would still need a gear change.

    I'm thinking the same as you. If I destroy the 12bolt I might look more seriously into the 14b and just adapt a FF to 6 lug like Z3PR mentioned. From watching your videos, I definitely don't wheel any harder than you do.
     
  12. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    The 14SF is an awsome idea for a 6 lug upgrade. It has a larger 9.5" (same as D60) ring gear (the weak link in 10/12 bolts), larger axle shafts, is always newer than a 12b, and ARB has an air locker for it (if you are into the switch wheeling). Get some after market alloy shafts for it and it will be pretty close to a 14FF in shaft strength. It has a lot more ground clearance than the 14FF too (even more when lightly shaved). If you think you might break it you only need to carry one spare shaft (they are the same L&R). The only down fall is many of the 14SF were in 8 lug form or 6 lug on the Z71 offroad trucks (most Z71's got the G80 code for gov-loc). But a detroit/ARB will change the carrier anyway.
     
  13. 86chevybanshee

    86chevybanshee 1/2 ton status

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    my friend had an 88(newer bodystyle) k2500 with a 6 lug 14sf with 4.10's in it, try looking for something like that
     

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