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How long do you think it will be until GM goes bankrupt?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Corey 78K5, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Well what do You think? I think they are looking pretty bad right about now.. They build cars that no one wants and a lot of Their truck market has moved on to Ford and Dodge, including Myself.
    The only way I think they can survive is to get rid of Buick, GMC (or Chevy truck), Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and sell off Hummer. Then fire Their entire styling staff and demand lower wages with the UAW. Otherwise Their tit's up.
     
  2. txfiremank5

    txfiremank5 1/2 ton status

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    If they do, maybe I should send them a, "I told you so" letter. I sent one years ago about how they were going to see large numbers lost to ford & dodge due to SFA, and a desugn that get's uglier with every change. :p:

    All I got was a thanks for concern, but we are yakcty yackty ..
     
  3. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    About right!
     
  4. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The fact that Delphi just declared bankruptcy isn't going to help them either.....



    :eek1:
     
  5. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    that rumor of Toyota buying them would be the best thing that could happen IMO.
     
  6. spincast375

    spincast375 1/2 ton status

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    Ha!

    I have a sister that works for Ford in their world headquarters, and a brother who graduated from GMI and worked for them all his life. I fled Detroit when I had the chance. Everyone has their hand out, and a 'what's in it for me / where's mine' attitude. The UAW and bad management are the problem. It has been building for eighty years. They feel like they are on the Titanic, but they are addicted to the pay and perks, and won't jump off. Everyone hopes they can retire before it sinks.

    Here in the south we have Nissan, BMW, and Mercedes. It's not the American worker. Nissan is debt free, makes twenty percent profit per vehicle, and is selling everything they can make. How do you explain that?

    By the way, I sunk all of my retirement money into GM bonds where I am getting 7.5% return. What are you making on your investments this year? GM won't go bankrupt. They have billions in cash on hand. But they do need a major change in philosophy and culture.
     
  7. grimjaw

    grimjaw 1/2 ton status

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    Delphi files for bankruptcy This is a good read. Why GM's Plan Won't Work ...and the ugly road ahead . Its dated MAY 9, 2005 so it does not address Delphi but that can not help the problem. If I had money in GM I think I would move it before I lose it.


    Edit: I just found this.

    Delphi's bankruptcy is among the 15 largest since 1980, based on rankings on the BankruptcyData.com Web site.

    Delphi said it plans to emerge from bankruptcy in early to mid-2007, after substantially cutting U.S. manufacturing operations and modifying labor agreements to reduce wages and benefits.

    Under terms of its spinoff, GM may be liable for pension and retiree benefits for UAW workers at Delphi, though analyst forecasts of the cost to GM have varied broadly in the range of billions of dollars.

    from:
     
  8. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Keep in mind that even if it files, it will just reorganize and be back (hopefully) in a better position. I would not want to be a bond holder, enployee or the UAW in that circumstance, but as a consumer you will notice little difference.
     
  9. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    Remember what Chrysler went through ??
     
  10. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    Just my .02:

    Pontiac and Buick equals crap. They are ugly, the quality sucks, and sales are marginal.

    Hummer isn't a huge seller, but it does have marketing appeal. It is a brand that has a bling factor and keeps their name in lights.

    Saturn is selling. The cars aren't too bad and they are popular with the middle and lower middle class.

    GM and Chevy trucks are where I have my major issue. I haven't bought, and won't buy, a GM truck any newer than the 76 Blazer I have. After the classic look stopped in 90, the GM designers stuck their heads firmly up their asses. The sad thing is, the 350 is a tried and true engine, their axles have always breen pretty good, and transmissions haven't been too bad. I think mechanically GM competes pretty good with Ford. Where they drop the ball is in looks and quality of finish. The interiors have sucked since 90 with their gray chiclet buttons on the radio and other controls, hideous dash design and configuration, and butt ugly exteriors. Ford leaves them in the dust for looks and interiors and that is what is winning people away from GM trucks in my opinion. A Ford truck looks like a truck. The GM truck is so bland it just fades into the background.

    Another problem with GM is that they didn't see the retro look coming back in style like Ford did. The Thunderbird and now the Mustang are great looking cars and the Mustang is selling like hotcakes. They also dropped the Caprice Classic and knocked themselves out of the police/fire/public safety market for a rear wheel drive four door. They tried to compete with the Tahoe but that is a joke. The only cars they are selling are the cheap tin boxes like the Malibu, Impala, etc. that are snapped up in mass quantities for rental and municipal fleets. Those things are disposables and the quality is a joke too. It seems like the only Chevy that they spend any time on quality is the Vette, and even that interior is just average.
     
  11. ak bandit

    ak bandit 1/2 ton status

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    ...and dont even get me started on the Camaro.
     
  12. MTMike

    MTMike 1/2 ton status

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    No doubt! Thats when it all started for me.

    Then they come out with the SSR & the HHR :doah: What in God's name were/are they thinking? And with their trucks, do they really need so blasted many engine options? V6 and 350 available the 1/2 tons, 350 or a 454 option in the HD, and a good diesel option in the HD. Is it that hard? Do we really need 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 and 8.1 engine options? And someone in the SS Badge/decal department needs to be kicked onto the street. What's next, and Aveo SS?

    When in the market for a new HD Diesel truck this summer, I considered all 3. The Powerchoke unsold me on the Ford, the IFS & a new found brand un-loyalty unsold me on the GM, and the Cummins really sold me on Dodge.
     
  13. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    How long??

    It won't take long before ALL the US manufacturers claim bankruptcy if gas keeps going up in price,and supply can't keep up with demand..All the "big" vehicles will only be affordable by the rich--the rest of us will have little choice but to drive econoboxes like hondas and Kia's..

    GM has made a lot of stupid choices in the past 10-15 years..I agree with the post saying how it was a dumb move to stop making the caprice and RWD full size cars--police and municipal fleets accounted for a large portion of their sales..I don't look forward to owning any vehicle GM made after they changed to the "new" style trucks in 88 and up..cheap tupperware interior,wimpy IFS front end ,and torsion bars..didn't they learn their lesson with the 60-62 GMC's torsion bars suck for a work truck with a plow??--sure they ride like a car--but if I want a car like ride,I'll buy a CAR!.. :rolleyes:

    If they want to keep Pontiac alive,get rid of all the crap they make--and start making reproduction GTO's ..I'd buy a 66 or a 69 GTO in a heartbeat if they would make them exactly like the original in looks,with 2006 suspension,and engines with EFI and a turbo or blower.--and the Firebirds too...Gm got on the "retro" wagon a bit late..chrysler and ford beat them to the punch..

    I like the new wagon that looks like a 49 Suburban,and the SSR is cool looking too,but unfortunately pracically worthless as a "real" truck..a rich mans hot rod truck--a toy,not a useful vehicle..Bring back the El Camino,something the average working stiff can afford if they want to sell more "show" trucks,that cant haul much..I never understood why they dropped them,they seemed to be very popular..

    The older Camaro's would be a great thing to bring back--the 67-69's especially--chevelles SS's too,from 66-72..they would sell like hotcakes to the baby boomers like myself,who'd spend as much finding and restoring a worthy original as the new ones would likely cost....

    The fact GM is one of the oldest and richest companies in our history ,will practically gaurantee they will never go belly up completely..but they will be brought to thier knees if the US economy,fuel prices,and forigen competition keep going the way they are..Ford and Dodge aren't immune either,but are doing better than GM is right now.. :crazy:
     
  14. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    Yep.. all that effort to rebuild the company, just to sell it to the damn germans. And they did it without declaring bankruptcy, or getting a handout from uncle sam.

    Of course,when daimler came calling, chrysler had tons of cash and no other american automaker had as much invested into their design / build technology than them, which is what daimler desperatley needed.. and the minivans and trucks.. daimler needed those too.

    Ticks me off when I keep reading that chrysler needed daimler to save it.. truth is, it's the other way around.

    Tom
     
  15. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    I can't see how that would be a benefit to the nation if that happened, but if GM can't get it's act together, I guess it deserves what it gets.

    Tom
     
  16. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Can't see it happening, for two reasons:

    1. Lots of areas rely on GM for their local economy. Shut the plant down and the area takes a MAJOR hit. This translates to a loss of tax base, and the Gov't won't allow that to happen.

    2. GM itself pays huge corporate taxes. Once again, the Gov't won't stand by and let them fall apart.

    If GM was a smaller outfit, they would have been forced to file for credit protection a couple of years ago......
     
  17. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    Kind of depends on who is president at the time..

    your reason number one was the one that got jimmy carter to move on signing the loan guarantees for chrysler, so that the banks would loan them money. Reagan would only allow what had been promised by the previous administration, and opposed any gov't intervention whatsoever. That's why Iaccoca is a democrat now.

    Clinton actively tried to take down microsoft, so it's tough to see where he'd have much sympathy for a big tax paying corporation. Plus, he signed NAFTA which isn't friendly to US jobs.

    Bush ( correctly) sees the value in corporations remaining viable, so he might help.. if GM hangs on for a few more years and hillary gets in, who knows.

    you make valid points paul, I'm just saying that politics will have a role in this.

    Tom
     
  18. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Thanks for the reminder Corey... I just cancelled my GM Card. I've been meaning to do that for a month...

    I hate the exit interview for cancelling a CC:

    "Sir, you do know your GM card points will expire in 90 days after you cancel the card? If you keep the card, they're good for 7 years. Are you sure you're not going to buy a new car in the next 7 years?"

    "Not unless the price comes down a LOT on a new 'Vette..."
     
  19. Fubeca

    Fubeca 1/2 ton status

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    I hate cancelling cards too - its such a pain to convince them that you really don't care about anything they have to offer.

    I'd be willing to bet that even if they file for bankruptcy customers won't see much happen with their GM card points. They'll stick it to their workers and creditors but - like the airlines - they'll try to keep the customers as happy as possible. The only way they can get out of bankruptcy is to sell cars and they'll have an even harder time doing that if they screw their loyal customers.
     
  20. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Toyota manufactures their cars here, that means tax money and jobs here. So what if somewhere along the line money goes overseas? Its not like with a US resident being the owner we see any of that profit, it just goes to make some VP rich. Yeah I guess he'd buy a big house and blah blah blah, but those people would still be needed.

    Don't complain about the way the car designs have gone, its the demand of the many not the few(us). Toyota trucks have IFS as well, in ALL other parts of the world(except maybe Canada and Mexico) they have SFAs. Its the US car/truck buyers who demand "smooth car like rides" out of TRUCKS. No way around it. GM sells a lot of trucks, why change something just cause some of us want something different? I see a lot of new Chevy's on the street, so someone likes the looks. My dad has an 04, he loves the damn thing. Can't say he loves the looks but he loves everything else about it.
     

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