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how's this?

Discussion in 'Audio' started by beater_k20, Jan 14, 2007.

  1. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    i've got an Alpine CDA-9811 in my C2500. great HU, and nothing wrong with it, so im gonna keep it for now. the polk 4x6s that i have in it now have about had it. i blew one of the fronts, and its beginning to drive me nuts. i'm currently running them off of the stock pigtails. i'd like to make an upgrade in the near future, and am thinking about amplifying the replacements.

    these were recomended as a replacement http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=P6452&Language=ENG&Country=CA&Region=USA&cat=MEL&ser=POS

    would this be a decent amp to push them with?
    http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=CS60.4&Language=ENG&Country=CA&Region=USA&cat=AMP&ser=CSS

    i plan on adding a single 10" and another amp to push it in the future.

    any input is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. MTChevy

    MTChevy 3/4 ton status Premium Member

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    Well, I would definatly run that system with the amp. i heard plates are the only way to go
     
  3. 5280k5

    5280k5 1/2 ton status

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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2007
  4. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    a set? i need 4.
     
  5. chevyin

    chevyin 1/2 ton status

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    The reason people say plates are the way to go is the cone shape, and sometime the tweeter. Traditional 4x6's are just that, and oval speaker that is 4x6". This oval shape is not as strong geometrically as a round cone. Cone warpage/flex can be an issue. Also, plate speakers tend to have better tweeters than the oval counterparts.

    Plates have a disadvantage though too, cone area. A plate speaker does not utilize the entire 4x6" area for a radiating surface like the oval cone does. This leads to a little less bass output, potentially. I say potentially because a good round aftermarket speaker cn usually have more cone excursion (length of motion) which helps offset the lack of cone area as compared to the oval speaker.

    Both systems suffer from a similar problem, over all lack of bass (midbass) output. They simply dont have the displacement potential to move enough air and create any relistic lone frequency extension. They are just too small. Midrange and up, yeah they excel, but down low they really lack. Then add in a 10" subwoofer, imagine what happens. Now you have strong midrange and upper freqs, and you have strong subbass, but there is a hole in the system's response in the midbass region.

    If 4x6's are used, a good 6-1/2 midbass speaker would be a good addition to the system to blend the freqency reponse between the 4x6's and the subwoofer. But then the question becomes, if you can fit that 6-1/2, why not just go with a good 6-1/2" component set. Honestly, if you are at all serious about the sound of the system, look into something more than 4x6's in the dash (Im assuming the dash). You chosing an external amplifier makes me think you do care, and concerns me that you will not be satified with the performance of your planned system. At least consider larger speakers for the rear. :D

    But I also may be making a mountain out of a molehill here. Ive known people to run 4x6 fronts with an 18" speaker and think it sounds fine. Who am I to spout numbers and say otherwise. To each their own, just something for you to consider.

    The speakers are rated at 50watts, the amp at 60. Probably fine, but you would need to be safe to set the gains correctly. Much clipping and those speakers wouldn't last long.

    When you install your amp and new speakers, be sure to run new speaker wire. 14-16ga would be plenty big enough.
     
  6. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    well, with the 4x6s, there are 2 in front (at each corner of the dash) and 2 in the rear (in the B pilars), that would eliminate the "holes" in the system, wouldnt it? i do plan on a single 10" sub behind the seat, mounted in the middle, with an amp on either side.
     
  7. chevyin

    chevyin 1/2 ton status

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    No that would not eliminate the lack of midbass. Running 4 speakers that only really put out midrange and above will not increase midbass any significant amount.

    Speakers of certain sizes and designs are meant to play a frequency range. 12" subwoofers are meant to play subbass, 3/4" tweeters are meant for treble, obviously. There are exceptions to this rule, but that's the general idea. A 3" or 4" speaker just isn't made to play midbass at any real discernable level. Its sort of like adding more tweeters in hopes of increasing your midrange.

    In order to really acheive realistic midbass that will keep up with your midrange and high freqs, and subbass when you add the sub, you are simply gonna need some bigger midrange/midbass speakers. Yes, you can run your high-pass crossover for your sub higher, having it reach up into the midbass region somewhat, but this really pulls the music 'image' towards the back of the vehicle (bad) and tends to make the sub sound boomy/sloppy.

    But like I said before, some people dont mind this type of situation. Im not saying if you build your system as presented, that you will definitely dislike it. I suspect, at leastin the long run, you will be disappointed, but I may be way off base. Sit back, think about how important the music quality is to you, how much work it would be putting in real mids (probably means cutting holes in the doors), and decide if its something you are interested in. If so, I can help you along the way. If not, I completely understand, not everyone is as picky as the next guy about such things. Again just trying to give you another perspective to think about.
     
  8. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    what you're saying is making perfect sense now. so if i'm itrepreting this correctly, i could run one pair of 4x6s to take care of the midrange, and then something ~6.5" maybe in a kick panel enclosure to take care of midbass (close to the doors, and wont effect window regulator performance) and a single 10 behind the seat.

    if i am correct in my interpretation, which location would be better for the 4x6s, the dash, or the B pilar?

    thanks for all the help. i seem to have missed all of this stuff when my buddies got into it years ago, i guess i was more focused on mechanicals.
     
  9. chevyin

    chevyin 1/2 ton status

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    Yes, you are interpreting that correctly. That setup would work alot better. Kickpanels would work fine.

    Dash would be better. Ideally keeping all the speakers on each side as close together as possible is ideal, but cars/trucks simply aren't ideal speaker platforms. ;) 4x6's in the dash powered by front 2 channels of amp, mids in the kicks powered by rear two channels of amp... reasonably well designed and balanced system there. Rear passengers... screw em! lol j/k... sort of. If you want rear speakers, I suggest lesser speakers simply powered off the head unit. The front stage should overpower any rear mounted speakers (not including sub), this keeps the sound stage in front of you. Most high end systems dont utilize rear speakers (their front stage is enough to 'immerse' you), or use low powered rear speakers with a narrow freq band, called 'rear fill' speakers. Most emphasis should be on the front stage, rear speakers are much less important.
     
  10. 5280k5

    5280k5 1/2 ton status

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    Yeah I wouldn't worry too much about the rears either. We did a real simple system in my friends s-10 blazere with 4x6 plates in the dash, 6.5 in the kick
    panels, rear seat 6x9's and a single 10" sub all running off amps, nothing real big but the sound quality was amazing and was real balanced between all the different frequencies. Did not use any stock wiring to any of the speaker, ran the whole the truck in 14 gauge monster cable. If you still are interested in those speakers send a pm:D
     

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