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Hydro VS Hysteer VS Crossover

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by laketex, Nov 5, 2002.

  1. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    Hey guys, another question for yall on steering. I found a little info, but no real beef. I guess I dont really understand what's different about hydro steer, but here's my question. If I decide to go with crossover steering on a mythical D60 frontend that i've been dreaming about, how hard is it to convert to hydro steer later? I hate doing things twice, but dont think i'll have cash for hydro when I set up the axle at first. So how much will I lose by doing it in 2 steps? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
  2. OL14BLAZ

    OL14BLAZ 1/2 ton status

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    IMO you won't loose much as long as you get your steering box set up with the fittings for hydro when you have it out to put the 2wd steering sector installed.

    Eric /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  3. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> It's no big deal, you won't be redoing anything. The hydro ram attaches from the long side axle tube to the tie rod, since the tie rod doesn't change position when you go crossover it will just go right on. Now, if you go hysteer, then it's a bit more difficult, but you still won't have to redo anything. </font color>
     
  4. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Also, you talking about hydro assist (like mine from WTO) or full hydro. As was said, hydro assist is just an add-on to the existing system. I did my cross over before the hydro and there was no issue. Just make sure the links/ends are strong enough to deal with the power of the ram when you build them.

    Full hydro replaces the drag link completely (there is no drag link) and the steering box is replaced with an orbital valve. No drag link, no bump steer. But also no mechanical link in case of blown lines. You also usually loose “return to center” (without special consideration in design and equipment) and there are other potential issues depending on equipment selection such as different rates left and right if you use a single ram.

    Cross over on a D60 just requires a 2WD box, dropped pitman, long drag link, and a passenger side knuckle arm. You also need to mod the cross member or otherwise clear it with the drag link in most cases.

    “High-steer” is a different animal all together. It moves the tie rod over the axle, usually using a pair of knuckle arms like the passenger side used for cross over. Besides requiring 2 knuckle arms, it also requires a great deal of thought to get everything to clear, especially if/when you add a hydro cylinder to the mix.

    I know that most of this is old news to you but, I wasn't sure exactly what you wanted/needed, so I tried the "shot gun" approach. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
     
  5. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    I appreciate that from all you guys:D

    I'm just trying to figure out my plan of attack before I do anything stupid. I could settle for lowsteer, and the hydro being an easy later on fit really settles things for me. That's the route I'll go. BAddog, did you make your own rods and arms or where did you go for these?
     
  6. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Like most everything else, I made my own. The tie rod is 1.75 x 0.375 1028 DOM with Avalanche threaded inserts in the ends. My drag link is straight and made from 1.5 x 0.250 1028 DOM. I built my own high clearance cross member from common mild steel 2 x 0.250 square tube, plate, and angle iron. My pitman is off a mid 80s Ford van ($6 at PNP) bored out for a GM DLE and the passenger side arm is also from Avalanche. I chose the AV arm due to the number of options is provided and to allow a potential upgrade to “high steer”, which I have since decided that I will probably never do. My beefy tie rod down low helps protect things (including the ram) and it is sufficient to stop my truck cold without any damage what-so-ever.
     
  7. LKJR

    LKJR 1/2 ton status

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    why waste your money, that floor jack steers it just fine /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  8. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    Dont you have something to DO? /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  9. LKJR

    LKJR 1/2 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Nope, messin with you is my only occupation

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  10. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    Jackass.
     
  11. BOWTIE

    BOWTIE 1/2 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    why waste your money, that floor jack steers it just fine

    [/ QUOTE ]



    bwahahahaha!!! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif











    laketex:
    just messing with ya /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif


    IMO i'd stay away from hysteer, i just can't see leaving the front diff open for rock bashing.


















    ric
     
  12. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    yeah yeah i know...I'm an easy target to boot! Someday I'll have the resources and time to go wheeling a lot. But for now, it's just wrenching with free materials. LOL
     
  13. beater74

    beater74 1/2 ton status

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    i was reading a post yesterday over at PBB and they were talk'n about hydroassit/highsteer/behind the pumkin. now that looks like a real trick setup /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  14. 8_YOUR_H2

    8_YOUR_H2 1/2 ton status

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    I have talked to Scott at rockstomper about this same thing and after that discussion I am going to stay with the stock style "front to back" steering and add Hydro assist onto it. You are going to get the extra umph needed to turn those big tires while you are at full droop or up on the rocks. So why not just add the hydro and leave the rest stock.
     
  15. Silver84k5

    Silver84k5 1/2 ton status

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    This has been asked to death im sure, but would Hydro assist help Cure DW?
     
  16. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Hmm, I gotta say I don't buy that. Scott knows his stuff but, hydro-assist does not eliminate the benefit (or need) of cross-over. I hope there was some miscommunication here.

    HA gives you the power to turn when you would otherwise not have enough. Like bound in the rocks, big tires and a front locker, etc. It also reduces the stress on the steering box and frame by a huge amount. However, if the steering box is at full lock, and the hydro cylinder is able to force it past that point (without bypassing), then something has to give. Frame, linkage, box, something. So, when the driver side is drooped with the drag link near vertical, and the steering box is all the way right just to get the tires to point straight, then the cylinder forcing the tie rod over for a sharp right turn will cause problems. Where is the slack supposed to come from? Something has to give, and will eventually break.
     
  17. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Usually it will, depending on the root causes...
     
  18. Silver84k5

    Silver84k5 1/2 ton status

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    root causes being, Old tie rod ends, bad alignment, and incorrect camber/castor (dunno which is the right word)
     
  19. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I'm no expert, but based on other posts, I would say that if there is any slop in the system (due to wear, blown bushings, whatever) then it is less likely to be effective. There was a couple of really good discussions on this a while back. People who had basically tight suspensions sometimes still have DW apparently due to harmonics. General opinion was that the HA would almost certainly fix this. However, people with HA and no DW would report the DW had started even with the HA when bushings went bad or links got loose. I would say fix the loose stuff and the HA will *probably* fix the DW (if any) from there. But you gotta replace the worn stuff.

    This is JMO so, take it "for what it's worth"...
     
  20. Silver84k5

    Silver84k5 1/2 ton status

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    i wonder why D44's dont have near the problems with DW that the 60s have, i remember Wes said awhile back that it might have something to do with that cheesy plastic bushing on top of the knucles, under the cap
     

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