Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

i call upon the rock crawling guru's for input

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by yunit, Jun 20, 2003.

  1. yunit

    yunit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oakland, NJ
    i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    Ok, I just got my tranny an new convertor from the shop and wanted input on my drivetrain setup.

    -TH400 with all the bullet proof mod's and manual valve body.
    -2000 stall, lockup convertor
    -5.13 R&P
    -203/205 w/Doubler
    -42" TSL's

    Any input on driving characteristic's?
    I hope I did not F up on the convertor, I would feel so [​IMG] !
     
  2. SCOOBYDANNN

    SCOOBYDANNN 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2001
    Posts:
    2,129
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    El Paso, TEXAS
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    that is going to be my exact setup except for the 5.13's. i spoke w/ Watson and asked basically the same ? and he said i would be fine, i could go lower gear but ill be fine where im at (we all know im probably not going to be happy /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.) think about it----

    400 w/ mods man valve---bullet proof already, can run at steeper angles (from what i'e heard) and you can shift it like a standard

    2000 stall lockup---I'm new to the auto scene, but i was told between 1500-2000 and im still not sure whata lockup really is and does

    5.13---the lowest you can go (and driving on 42's will be like you are back on 31's and 3.73's)

    doubler---duh

    42's--again-duh

    man you are perfect

    my $.02
     
  3. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    I love everything except the stall convertor. How much of an issue it'll be in the rocks is up to debate I guess...but it may produce a lot of unwanted tranny heat. You might also be using a bit more throttle than you'd otherwise need when idling over something might be preferable.

    Rene
     
  4. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Posts:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Jose CA
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    stall seems a bit high. what motor you got? If you got a BBC or Oilburner, that is WAY too high. you're grunt is down low. If you got a SBC, its high, you'll just have to be on the gas a bit more
     
  5. yunit

    yunit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oakland, NJ
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    I was told by the owner (Pat Barret, Level Ten Transmissions) that he would not build me a tranny if I did not use the manual valve body, he said that the tranny will run a lot cooler from the extra psi from the manual vb. Also, the tranny has a Chrysler filter that is huge compared to the stock one, Pat said I could turn the truck upside down and it will still pump fluid. I will be installing a deeper pan and a cooler with a fan as well. If I am not satisfied when I finally get in back on the trail, I will be dropping it off so they can install something a little lower.

    When I talked to ART CARR, they said they wanted to build me a 1300 stall convertor; is that too low?
     
  6. yunit

    yunit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oakland, NJ
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    So what do you guys suggest I use? The convertor is still in the box and I will return it in a heartbeat.
     
  7. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    I'd go with the 1300 stall, hell even a stock convertor should do just fine. Stall convertors are great for mud and sand drags and street cars...not so good in the rocks.

    The 1300 stall should give you better compression braking in compound low too. To finally get compression braking with the doubler and then defeat that with a high stall seems pointless.

    Rene
     
  8. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Posts:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Jose CA
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    yup, rene said it.

    i'm running a stock converter, and I have good compression braking on mild grades. it's really nice /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Mine runs at ~155* on the trail but gets to 180* on the freeway. no fricking idea
     
  9. yunit

    yunit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oakland, NJ
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    Well, I just got off of the phone with Level Ten. They are saying that the TC is actually around 1800, but with a 350ci engine it should act like a 1600?! The guy freaked out when I mentioned using a 1300 TC, said they only use those on diesel's.
    So now what???
     
  10. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Posts:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Jose CA
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    1600 isn't bad. ~1500 is where mine gets moving
     
  11. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    Stall speed is determined by the pitch of the stator blades and the diameter of the convertor...why should it being a small block or big block effect the actual stall speed? Honestly I'd run a stock TH400 convertor...nice and simple and would work really well.

    The only drawback to the lower stall convertors is you'd probably be more on the brakes trying to hold it back at idle...so in some ways a really low stall convertor could be as much as PITA as a high stall.

    Rene
     
  12. yunit

    yunit 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Posts:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oakland, NJ
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    I guess we will have to wait and see how it performs, if I do not like how it crawls, they will have to build me a new one since this TC was the tech's recommendation.
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    [ QUOTE ]
    this TC was the tech's recommendation.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That explains why he was all defensive on the phone then...

    Rene
     
  14. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2001
    Posts:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Marcos, Ca USA
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    The amount of torque your engine puts out directly effects the stall speed. With more torque you can grunt past the rated stall. I have a lower than stock 1300 stall towing converter on my 415ci and I can flash it up to 1700.
     
  15. SCOOBYDANNN

    SCOOBYDANNN 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2001
    Posts:
    2,129
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    El Paso, TEXAS
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    [ QUOTE ]
    and I can flash it up to 1700.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Switch Pitch???
    a buddy of mine has this and raves about it (too much $$ for me, but what are the advantages?
     
  16. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2000
    Posts:
    36,169
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Location:
    E-town baby!
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    I had a 65 Buick with a switch pitch convertor TH400. It was awesome. There was an electic slide switch on the throttle linkage, anything under 3/4 throttle and it was like a stock stall convertor (~1500 or so) but anything more than 3/4 throttle switched the stator pitch and it was roughly 2400 stall. I used to disconnect the switch from the linkage when I'd cruise town looking for trouble...and I'd leave the switch engaged so it was high stall. For a big car it sure launched hard!

    I don't even know where you'd get one of those...but it's literally the best of both worlds. In my Buick I could have set the switch anywhere as early as 1/2 throttle all the way up to full throttle only.

    Rene
     
  17. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Posts:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pocatello, ID
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    I ran a 2400 stall in all situations and here is what I found:

    It is great for: Street, Mud, Sand

    It sucks for: Rocks, Deep snow

    I ended up pulling it out so I could Rock Crawl better and it helped a lot. The problem with the rocks is that you want to creep up something steep. The 2400 stall would slip and slip and then grab hard when it flashed and then spin the tires and I didnt go anywhere. Went back to the stock and It was much easier to drive around. In fact, the stall is still sitting on the garage floor. I've been thinking about putting it into my '68 Chevelle for fun. I'll just have to avoid the rocks and the deep snow with it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  18. marv_springer

    marv_springer 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2001
    Posts:
    2,781
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Mesa, Arizona
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif fast moving post...!

    Some may not agree, but I think that this issue is being a little "over" analyzed. Anywhere around "stock" stall will be workable for crawling. This assumes that you've got a motor that has a decent idle. I think a rougher (street cam) idle could be crawled with a slightly higher stall speed. And on the other end, I think the "diesel" speed converters can actually backfire on you if your gearing is too low.

    That being said... I run an 1800 advertised stall w/ Doubler gearing and 3.73's /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif behind a smooth idling 350. Knowing how the converter acts, I adjust my "go pedal" control accordingly. I've seen Rob's (therobzilla) combination, and he can hardly stop it! w/ a strong TPI idle, diesel converter, Doubler gearing, and 4.10's - he's on the brakes while idling over almost any obstacle! /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    To summarize, if you're running a Doubler the stall speed is prolly not as critical as you might think.... You can get too high and too low w/ stall speed. And finally, you'll prolly be able to modify your driving to some extent to deal w/ what you've got. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    Marv
     
  19. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    3,639
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    Id have to agree with these guys on the Converter choice. My stock TH350 Converter is sometimes more stall than I need IMO. With the Doubler, you will definately have to give it gas to get it to move and with 5.13's you will be a bit better off than I am (4.56).

    Stall Converters generate much more heat - heat is not good on a trail rig.

    One thing you didnt mention is twin sticking your NP205. Do it, its worth the little bit of effort! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. SCOOBYDANNN

    SCOOBYDANNN 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2001
    Posts:
    2,129
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    El Paso, TEXAS
    Re: i call upon the rock crawling guru\'s for input

    [ QUOTE ]
    I don't even know where you'd get one of those...but it's literally the best of both worlds

    [/ QUOTE ]

    there is a guy in town that can build it, my buddy (the one w/ the 400 switch pitch) called the guy and he wanted almost $1000 for rebuild the 400 w/ switch pitch and TC. To me that sounded unreasonable---is it?
     

Share This Page