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I finally found the vibration

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by wayne, Nov 19, 2001.

  1. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    Well I decided before having the tires rebalanced to pull the rear shaft out again, (did it like 10 times now) and take it for a drive on the front axle. Well she rode like a caddy up to 65 mph. I started to play with angles some more and found out they were off again. I now have the t case dropped 2" and it made a big improvement. I still have a little vibration so I am going to mess with the pinion angle some more. I know the 2" drop is alot but it is just a temp fix so I can drive it on the highway over 45mph.[​IMG] The one thing I can't figure out is before I did the flip I had perfect angles and a bad vibration and with the angles off after the flip it was better then it was before. So maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel after all.[​IMG][​IMG]

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  2. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Excellent! See! We told you not to give up on the truck, and now you know what the problem is not even 24 hours later! [​IMG] Have you ever had the driveshaft itself checked for trueness? I would think that most any driveline shop could do that for you...

    Glad to hear things are running great now!

    <font color=red>GOT MUD???</font color=red>
    My license plate reads:<font color=blue> 8 YR SUV</font color=blue>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://24.10.209.54/bigolk5.htm>http://24.10.209.54/bigolk5.htm</a>
    454/TH400/NP205 - 14BFF/D60/w/ 4.10s
     
  3. 76chevy

    76chevy 1/2 ton status

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    I hope you figure that puppy out. Keep trying!!

    <font color=red>Spirit of 76</font color=red>

    <a target="_blank" href=http://homepage.mac.com/toddcripps/Menu2.html>homepage</a>
     
  4. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    Thats good to hear, especially since I cut my hangers last night for the shackle flip and will be dealing with similar issues. A few things I thought of in relation to your problem is to make sure that your driveshaft ends are lined up with each other. Sometimes they slip off and people assume they can slip back on in any position but they need to be aligned with each other like this ]=====[ . If you have that alignment off by just one spline, you can get some nasty vibration from it. The other thought was in your pinion to output yolk alignment. I assume you are keeping them parallel with each other for a non CV-Style shaft and not pointing the pinion at the output yolk for a CV-Style shaft, unless of course you have a CV-Style driveshaft. Just a few last minute thoughts.

    I started with nothing and I still have most of that left! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.echobit.com:81/k5/> Pictures</a>
     
  5. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    Even if I get all the bugs worked out I still might sell it. If somebody offers me the money I will let it go because I can always build another one even better.[​IMG]

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  6. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    Well I can blow the theory of that away. Just ask Rene how his pinion is pointed and he does not have a CV shaft and also he has no vibration.[​IMG]

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  7. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    I had a feeling that was it. My T-case is dropped 1 1/2", and with the shackle flip I had to shim down 12 degrees. I just couldnt see how you were getting away with a 4 degree shim and a 1" drop. A lot depends on your tranny and t-case length, but with my th400 and 205, thats what I had to do.
    How did ya figure out your angles? I used a angle guage and put it on the yoke at the t-case (the one that is solid to the case), measured that, then put it on the yoke at the diff, measured that one. I ended up with 4 degrees at the case, and 15 degrees at the diff. Thats with my 4 degree shim installed! So, you take the 4 degrees, add it to the 19 (15 plus 4 ) and divide it by 2. That gave me 12.5 degrees. I built those shims to that angle and it was way smooth all the way thru 70 mph.
    Glad you found it, good luck with the rest of the project!

    Mike


    <font color=blue>Thumper
    85 Fullsize Jimmy
    [​IMG]
    <font color=red>Aint Skeered!! </font color=red>
     
  8. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    I used an angle guage to but the difference was only 4 degrees. How did you come up with 12.5 by deviding 19 by 2? I come up with 9.5 so am I missing something in the equasion?

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  9. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    Oh sorry, I had to add the 19 from the bottom and the 4 from the top together. Thats 23, then divide by 2. Actually thats only 11.5 but I made em 12.

    Mike


    <font color=blue>Thumper
    85 Fullsize Jimmy
    [​IMG]
    <font color=red>Aint Skeered!! </font color=red>
     
  10. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    LOL...my angles are so far off it's not even funny and I have no vibes...even at 80 MPH. My pinion is pointing at the T-case and looks perfectly set up for a CV joint. Only thing is I don't have a CV joint. I do have a fixed yoke 205, so maybe not having a slip yoke helps a bit.

    Ask Spark87K5...he saw where my pinion was pointed last night and assumed I had a CV driveshaft[​IMG] When I told I didn't and also had no vibes I think the quote was "Some people must just be living right or something"[​IMG]

    Rene


    <font color=green>Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!</font color=green>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/project_T2> tRusty pics...</a>
     
  11. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Re: I finally found the vibration *DELETED*

    Post deleted by ftn96
     
  12. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I'm prolly out by over 6 degrees...

    Rene

    <font color=green>Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!</font color=green>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/project_T2> tRusty pics...</a>
     
  13. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    A 4 degree difference is TOO much. The angle shave to be within 2 degrees of one another.
    As far as this dividing stuff you guys are tlaking about. You might get the same number but I've always subtracted the pinion angle from the driveshaft slope angle to get the rear "working" angle.
    And subtracted the T-case angle from the driveshaft slope angle to get the front "working" angle. These 2 working angles need to be within the desired 2 degrees or less "FROM ONE ANOTHER".
    Say your driveshaft slope is 15 and the t-case is at 7, the working angle at the t-case would be 15-7=8
    Driveshaft slope is still 15 and the pinion angle is lets say 4.
    Now 15-4=11.
    So now we have a 11degree angle in the rear and an 8 degree at the T-case. This is a difference of 11-8=3...
    There is a 3 degree difference. This is outside the desired 2 degree or less difference.

    ***ONE SPECIAL NOTE!!!!
    When you add and shim to EITHER END of the driveshaft, this changes the driveshaft slope, and the angles AT BOTH ends of the driveshaft.

    For example:
    So you may have a 6 degree difference. So you would think you could you could just add a 4 degree shim at one end to bring you down to 2 degrees. WRONG!!! By adding the 4 degree shim at one end this changes the slope and the angle at the opposite end. It doesn't change by the same amount, but it does change.... so you have to figure out what the shim at one end is going to do to the slope and the other end as well.

    Hopefully this will help you out Wayne.
    All the number I used were off the top of my head, so I may have jumped from one example to another without using the same numbers.

    Personally, I found the best way to do all this is to remove your perches, then set them on the axles with the ubolts all snuged up WITH THE WEIGHT OF THE TRUCK ON THE TIRES.
    Then raise your T-case back up to the stock height. then rotate the pumpkin using a jack right under the pinion yoke (either up or down) with the driveshaft connected. Check your angles, ALL THREE OF THEM... If they are off, adjust accordingly with the jack. Then check ALL THREE ANGLES again. Once you have it perfect then weld those perches back on and be done with all this mess and forget you ever mentioned selling your rig. [​IMG]

    Surgeon General's Warning:
    Viagra and steroids may be harmful to your spouse![​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  14. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Your just a whole nuther ball game all together there, shitter! [​IMG]

    Surgeon General's Warning:
    Viagra and steroids may be harmful to your spouse![​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  15. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I have magic U-joints...[​IMG]
    Just don't forget where those perches came from sparky![​IMG]

    Rene

    <font color=green>Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!</font color=green>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/project_T2> tRusty pics...</a>
     
  16. Sparky87k5

    Sparky87k5 1/2 ton status

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    Rene, I couldn't believe it when I saw your pinion pointed just like mine at your transfer case and NO CV joint and NO vibration! Yep, some people just live right! I think you are on to something about the lack of a TC slip yoke though. Can't wait to get the next truck done and forget 208's.

    87 K5, 427BBC,D60 & 14BFF, NV4500, NP208, TSM disc's,
     
  17. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    Thanks a bunch for the info. I will recheck everything tomorrow and find out just what needs to be done. At least now I can do 50 without the truck chattering my teeth.[​IMG]

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  18. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    No Im sparky and your shitter! Damn how many beers have you had?[​IMG]

    Surgeon General's Warning:
    Viagra and steroids may be harmful to your spouse![​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     
  19. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    Sounds like a complicated process... The way it was explained to me is that the angle of the solid yoke out of the t-case, and the solid end of the pinion have to be the same angle or within 3 or 4 degrees for the shaft to work vibe free. eg: if you could extend your t-case output shaft long enough to get an angle guage on it, read the angle, extend the pinion shaft out forward and read an angle guage on it, they should be within 3-4 degrees. It doesnt matter what angle youe shaft is at, it will move as necessary. (up to a point where it will start binding on the yokes of course). If these arent the same, you have to shim the front of the diff either way, until it makes the diff angle the same as the t-case angle. If you shim the diff, the angle your t-case is pointing at doesnt change, just the driveshaft. If the t-case shaft is guaged at 4 degrees, and my diff reads 19 degrees, I have to shim the diff down 15 degrees. That will make it 4 as well. The dividing way, just gives an average of the 2 angles, I end up with 23 divided by 2 which is 11.5, I made my shim 12, which will actually be within the 3 degree difference between the 2. 2 ways to do the same thing. Dropping the t-case is necessary a lot of times because the angle without it dropped is maybe (just a guess) 1 degree, the pinion after a 4" block lift may be 2 degrees, which sounds good, but with such a short driveshaft it causes binding at the yokes. At that point my driveshaft was 36" long, with a th700r4 and the 208. Thats why many kits come with a t-case drop block. With my th400 and 205, I had to extend the driveshaft 3", so I could prolly get rid of my 1 1/2" t-case drop, or at least 1/2" of it, but in my case, 1/2" just wont make or break my clearance issues. [​IMG]

    Clear as mud eh??

    Mike


    <font color=blue>Thumper
    85 Fullsize Jimmy
    [​IMG]
    <font color=red>Aint Skeered!! </font color=red>
     
  20. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    I gotcha. Aren't angles just do much fun? [​IMG]

    Thats why I said screw the dumb $hit. I got me a CV shaft and said bye bye vibrations. Then I went and got some big lug tires and now the whole truck feels like an earthquake. [​IMG] Trade one vibe for another. Least I know it aint the driveline.

    As for one thing you said about the 3-4 degree difference. I was always told by every driveline shop that they need to be within "2" degrees of one another.
    Before my CV shaft, I had a 3 1/2 degree difference and it was drivable, but it had a little zone around 35-45 that was a little rough, but since the cv shaft...... Smooth as babies ass!!!!
    Rides better than my mother's Escalade!!! She didn't believe me till I stopped by and took here for a ride. [​IMG]

    Surgeon General's Warning:
    Viagra and steroids may be harmful to your spouse![​IMG]
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com>www.nashvillek5.freeservers.com</a>
     

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