Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

I need help fast....

Discussion in 'Audio' started by Prembird, Aug 14, 2001.

  1. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Posts:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    kc, mo.
    Ok... here is what is going on... Me and the wife have been decussing the alpine cdm-7861 that we have in my car... Now my question is... If this radio is starting to have problems i.e. wont keep bass/treble level (set it at +1 when inserting cd and within a couple minutes it goes back down to a -2 without anyone touching it.. or taking the cd out or anything... just listening to cd)... Also is skipping really bad now...Also i have checked the output for power coming off of the remote turn on from the radio.. it seems to come and go... Could the radio be causing my amps to go out on me by pushing out a overpowered signal to the amp.. I have got 3 amps that have went out on me without a reason... one of them has no power what so ever and the other two still power up but i have taken them apart and looked... one of the amps that powers up you can see where the burnt piece is at... If im right about where it is.. it is before the amplifaction part of it... i.e. maybe radio mess up and overdrove the amp... I need to know if the radio could cause this to happen.. I do have a warranty on the radio and plan on taking it back... but i need to know if i should bitch about the radio taking out my amps also... As for the amps going out i have gone over the wiring about 1000 times already... there is nothing in the wiring that is causing it... the bat. wire come out of bat. and have about a 6 in wire to the fuse holder... running a 30 amp fuse in it.. (recommended size).. then it goes threw the firewall via a gromet.. once inside it them goes under the carpet all the way back to the back... then comes out to the amp... The remote wire i was using was also part of the rca's.. little center wire... From the remote output of the radio (not the power ant. output but an actual output made for amps) the rca'[s are run from under the dash down and under the carpet as well... (other side of the car from the constant hot wire) The comes out at the amp also... Also i have rewired the remote wire to a seperate wire all together off of the fuse block thinking maybe that might be the cause.. still the same problems... i have checked all connections behind the radio, at the amps, at fuse blocks, and at fuse panel.. so i know that it is not in the wiring.. i have also pulled the wires out and slowly looked over them for any cracks, breaks, or weak points and have found nothing...

    So after all of this am i totally nuts by thinking that this radio is the reason my amps keep blowing up on me.... I bought it at a reputable audio store (brandsmart) and i know im not goin to have a problem with returning the radio for warranty... But should i also bitch about the radio taking out my amps also.. I need to call them but thought i would ask this and get info before i called them so i wouldnt sound like a total idiot... thanks in advanced for any and all info in this matter...

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  2. '73 K5

    '73 K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas
    I'm glad you already fixed one of the problems. Using the little wire in the middle of the RCA's isn't recommended for use as the remote turn on lead. That wire is there to help fix noise problems. In some cars...alot of Hondas I've worked on...no matter what you do you still have alternator whine. Separate the power lines from the RCA's, cross them at the amp at a 90 angle...tons of other crap and sometimes it still didn't work. Thats when I'd experiment with grounding that wire...and here is the weird part. It works more often when you just ground one side of it. I ground it at the amp first, and if that doesn't work then I ground it at the deck and if that doesn't work I ground both ends and try more tricks. ENOUGH with that story though.
    Part number two I would've done right away would be to help your remote turn on lead wire out with a relay. Asking a usually .5 amp circuit to turn on 3 amps is a pretty big job for it. The most I ever run off of a wire like that would be 2 amps. A relay would make it much easier on your deck. Kind of like my alarm. The siren wire was meant for only one siren, so when I ended up with a total of 4 sirens, I put a relay on that circuit.
    As for your deck making all those amps go bad...I don't think so. But it is possible. The only thing your deck is giving those amps is a signal and (remote turn on lead) just a little bit of power to turn them on. I don't know...I just don't see that causing the problem...Even if the turn on lead was sending the amps a lot of power, the only thing that would fry would be the switch. And where would it get too much power? 12 volts is 12 volts...that amp turn on lead will be getting power from the battery one way or another. I don't see it happening with the RCA's either, but I'm not as positive about that one. Maybe that deck is one in a million and is shooting pure evil out those RCA jacks...who knows...be sure and have that part of it bench tested when you take it back. Greg72...or anyone else have any thoughts on the RCA part of it? Good luck man.

    '73 K5
    Chevy good...Ford bad
     
  3. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Posts:
    15,680
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Location:
    642 Days to BB2018
    Prem,

    That's a really strange one alright. I went back a re-read your question a couple of times, and the decription of how things are installed....so hopefully my answers actually address your concerns.

    1. That head unit definitely has to go! It is skipping, has intermittent "remote turn on" power and obviously has some sort of 'short' or problem internally if the bass and treble are changing by themselves. Get rid of it!!

    2. The remote turn-on lead suggestion from Ryan is a good idea for extra 'goodness' in your install, but probably has nothing to do with this particular issue. From experience though, I know that it's easy to forget how much of a load we sometimes put on that 1 little wire......turn on 4 amps, turn on my EQs, turn on all my crossovers, turn on my phase-shift controller, etc!!! [​IMG]

    The fact that you 'bypassed' the deck and provided constant power to all your devices sucessfully tells me that was not the issue.

    3. I don't know enough about electronics to tell you what happened to your amps. It seems that an electrical design engineer 'worth his salt' would design the amplifier circuitry to dump any excess current to ground to prevent it from burning a trace through the circuitboard. You mentioned that the burnt trace is BEFORE the amplifier circuitry, so if it IS an overvoltage in an input circuit, it's not from the signal wires (RCAs)...possibly from the remote turn on?

    4. What about the possibility that the problem is in your car's own charging/electrical system? You've now lost a total of 3 amps and 1 head unit....and to be honest, they ALL sound like results from an overvoltage condition. Perhaps you've blown a voltage regulator and your car is not putting out 12 - 14.4V anymore.....maybe it's a lot higher than that? Check it with a voltmeter with the engine running......also check the alternator (or have a shop check it) to make sure that all the diodes are working.

    Hopefully, these will give you some additional ideas and maybe lead you to the answer. Be sure to keep us all informed on what is happening. GOOD LUCK!


    -Greg72
     
  4. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Posts:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    kc, mo.
    Ok here is the answers to the couple of questions you all have brought up...

    1. I am only running one amp at a time... Meaning... The remote turn on wire was only run to one amp... it goes out then changed the amp out and put another one in.. etc... so i am not trying to run multipule amps/equipment from one remote wire...

    2.As for the charging... I have checked that out as well.. My alt. is charging correctly.. I have pulled it and checked it, I have checked it at idle and also at different rpm ranges... Also have pulled power wire from the amps and checked it while i have been driving down the road.. Everything in the charging system seems fine..

    I have thought that maybe it could be the alt. was putting out to much but it is right where it needs to be...

    That is why i was wondering if maybe it had something to do with that radio and the rca's... my radio does have the bass curcuitry built into the deck... basically turn it one and it gives you a gain type of thing in the controls... 0 - +15 is the range on this.. i keep it at 0 and sometime up to max of 5 depending on what i am listening to... I know i have checked it before and it will do the same thing as my bass/treble by shooting up and then back down... That is another reason why i thought maybe it could be the radio killing the inputs on the amps...

    As of this Friday I am taking the radio back to BrandsMart... So i dont know if they will send it in or just give me a new one since i paid the extra for the extended warranty on it.. now this radio is a 2000 model and they cant get them anymore... But from everything i have gone threw that is the only thing i could think of.. the radio is killing my amps...

    I guess i could check the signal goin out of the rca's somehow and see if it spikes really bad or something.. hell i dont know.. im out of ideas.... and out of my mind on this one...


    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  5. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Posts:
    5,644
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    N Texas
    I've never had good luck with anything from alpine.
    I've had the best luck with Pioneer head units, thru dust, offroading, time....never have failed on me. [​IMG]

    No prohibiting allowed!!!!

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/muddin4fun79blazer/>http://www.geocities.com/muddin4fun79blazer/</a>
     
  6. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Posts:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    kc, mo.
    ok have an update for you all on this one...

    Called around to 5 different shops today.. one of them being where i bought it from...

    Each tech told me that if the radio is doing what i said then more then likely it is pushing out a dc wave to the amps and blowing them out... ALL of them agree that it is the radio blowing out my amps from what i have told them.. Also informed them on what i have checked and what not also...Everyone i talked to is an installer at there shops.. I have also called a repair place and asked them.. they said the same thing...
    The guy i talked to at brandsmart (we have 4 of them around here) told me that the radio is what is causing this to happen.. He went into great detail about how it all works.... Asked me a bunch of questions and guess what.. he told me to bring it in to him and that the radio IS causing my amps to go out... So as of friday i am goin to taking the radio down to him and will probably take a couple of the amps with me just in case... Guess its time to get a new one... I dont like the idea of having to wait 4-6 weeks to get my radio back... i think i will just bitch up a storm about the amps it has killed and what not.. see what happens... Just thought i would let you know what i have found out..

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  7. '73 K5

    '73 K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas
    What kind of Alpine stuff have you had? Some of their brand new stuff is just kinda so-so, but from the late 1980's-the late 1990's, Alpine decks were about the best to get. I've had probably around 10 or so and have had great luck with all. Check out my post on this board about Alpine and you'll see what I'm talkin' aboot.

    '73 K5
    Chevy good...Ford bad
     
  8. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Posts:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    kc, mo.
    i have owne alot of there stuff in the past.. that is why i bought another one.. maybe i just got a defect unit.. one of the few that come from them... who knows...

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  9. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Posts:
    5,644
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    N Texas
    I had problems with a head unit and then later had problems with some speakers. The head unit started spitting out cds after it was 3 months old. I ran a cleaner thru it and it still did it. I took it back and they gave me a knew one. 3 months later, same thing. Took it back, gave me a new one....this one lasted 5 months or so and started doing the same thing. By then, it was out of warentee. So, I got a pioneer. I had that one for 3 years and sold the truck about 2 years ago and it still works.
    I had some alpine speakers. They lasted a month (my hubby might of had something to do with it, but he won't admit it).
    They wouldn't warrentee them, so I got some pioneer speakers and they worked great right up until I had to take them out and when I put them back in the screw driver slipped and went thru the speaker [​IMG]. The good pioneer is in the camaro as a replacement temporarily.
    So, that's why I have a bitter taste in my mouth about alpine.

    It's been lovely, but I have to scream now.

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/muddin4fun79blazer/>http://www.geocities.com/muddin4fun79blazer/</a>
     
  10. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Posts:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    kc, mo.
    well maybe im out of line by thinking that they should help me out on this one.. i buy almost everything i have from them.. and the fact that the head unit has cost me more in amps then the radio, subs,wiring, etc i have spent with them... Dont know till i go there friday... guess i will find out..

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  11. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Posts:
    5,644
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    N Texas
    If it's under warentee I wouldn't see why they wouldn't. As long as they do good business though..

    It's been lovely, but I have to scream now.

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/muddin4fun79blazer/>http://www.geocities.com/muddin4fun79blazer/</a>
     
  12. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Posts:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    kc, mo.
    yea there pretty good and are willing to help out... I just have to wait and see... god i hate waiting.. im not a very paitent person...

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  13. CaptCrunch

    CaptCrunch 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2001
    Posts:
    3,596
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I think that sounds right Prem. I don't know all that much car audio wise, and most of what I know is from Ryan and prem here (thanks guys [​IMG] ). But I have come across this many of times in car ECM's that are giving badfeed back and will keep blowing out the same sensor over and over. Just a little extra coming in too late as usual LOL.

    Mudd'n... Oh man i just saw the new Alpine CD player 9well new to me i guess) and I was just drooling.... think just looks cool! I said get me the heck outta this store now LOL! [​IMG]

    I guess i haven't been a huge Alpine fan either, but their stuff is solid. I also really like Pioneer and Kenwoods. i'll never touch another deck brand again after this JVC... it is ok I guess but definetly not as nice as the other 3 listed.

    -Mikey
    1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch</a>
     
  14. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Posts:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    kc, mo.
    ok here is the update on what is going on... I was able to take it in to them today instead of Friday...

    They told me I was s.o.l. on alot of it.. BUT because it took out that many amps, caused me this much trouble.... they have a guy there that knows some of the people in the alpine service center... They are goin to get it pushed through faster then normal.. They also said that there is a really good chance they will just replace my unit with a new model Since everything that is wrong with it and it has taken out this many amps....

    Basically i should know something within a couple weeks at best... Now the bad part is that it could take up to the 4-6 weeks to get it back but they dont think it will take nearly that long...

    So that is what i know.. im tuneless till i get it back... good thing i dont drive very far now isnt it...

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     

Share This Page