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If you were building an emergency facility, what would you include?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by newyorkin, Apr 1, 2006.

  1. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    It hasn't been requested of me, but I'm planning at some point to come up with an emergency facility for my site. It's a poor location that would get flooded badly in a hurricane surge, so I want to develope an alternate emergency operations facility.

    Im' considering events like 9/11 and the 2003 blackout also.

    We currently have some large real estate (4-5 acres) that is undeveloped and on the top of a hill, with two small "shack" buildings on it. One is an old box truck body, the other is a cinder block building. Neither have running water, although both have lots of electricity. There is also a generator that can support things as they are for I think like 10 days on a full fuel tank.

    I mentioned to my boss that I'd like to build an emergency operations facility out there, and he didn't want to, he said the only reason we'd ever use it is during a hurricane, and there are large towers nearby that would be more likely to fall in a hurricane, and he doesn't think anyone should be near there if one of them fell.

    I would like to dig a structure there, though. A concrete encased bunker. :woot: That would allow the surrounding ground to absorb any falling towers energy.
    I want to be able to have a few people be able to man the site withotu leaving for several days if necessary. I would like to have running water pumped on site electrically (since we'd have electric through the genset).
    Some other things I'd want/need:
    -A shower and full bathroom, with a 50 gallon tank in case we lose electric
    -3-4 offices, or maybe a large conference room with removable dividers
    -1-2 bunkrooms
    -a kitchen
    -HVAC with outside air filtration (not that we'd be in there in time after a chemical attack or something, which I would consider beyond extremely unlikely in this area anyway)
    -Fire sprinkler system
    -Stocks of canned foods and MRE's, rotated out annually (at least)
    -Antenna feeds and utility feeds for communications

    ANyone have any experience building fallout shelters? :D
    Military guys, got any thoughts?
     
  2. thezentree

    thezentree 3/4 ton status

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    Ramen noodles and beer. And pizza. Lots of pizza.
     
  3. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Goes without saying. :thumb: :thumb:
     
  4. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    50000 white oak barrels, water , corn... well you get the picture...
     
  5. Jagged

    Jagged 1 ton status

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    For your HVAC system... try researching "positive air pressure." If you pressurize the building, it greatly reduces the outside contaminants coming in.
     
  6. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    Minimum 200 gallon water tank. Buried propane tank for heat, cooking and hoit water. Critter proof food storage. High end 1st aid kit.
     
  7. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    you guys sure have a funny way of planning for armageddon???Wait am I outta the loop??? Dammit is Jesus gonna be late again???:doah:










































    Sorry Ratch...:o
     
  8. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    To know what ya need, you'll need to list all the potential threats under which the 'bunker' might be used. For example, if nuclear attack / fallout is a concern, you'll want a shower that can be safely used for decontamination, not just getting rid of your funk. :grin: Air filtration is going to be tricky, since there are lots of chem / bio agents in addition to simple particulates (fallout) that could probably be stopped pretty easily. Modern tanks have ways of purifying air from most major military types of chem/bio/nuke agents... if it can be done in something as small as a vehicle, it can certainly be done in a building.

    Once you have threat-specific issues addressed, you can move on to basic human needs. You'll live 5 minutes without air... so start there. You'll make it 3 days without water... 30 without food, and so on. Most threats you'll face will probably end in less than 30 days (lets hope!) so clearly more space/time/effort should be dedicated to clean drinking water than massive food stockpiles.

    If collapsing buildings are a threat, how the entry is designed is going to be pretty important. If the door/hatch is outward opening, like your standard fire door, it'd be pretty easily blocked by debris from a destroyed building. If allowed by law, inward opening doors and a smaller secondary escape hatch would be a good idea. If the survivors of some disaster were trapped by debris and emergency crews couldn't get there in time, it'd be good to have at least 2 ways for the people to dig their way out. Speaking of digging out... it'd be a good idea to have some tools... like crowbars etc inside the bunker, should the people need them to get out. Digging with hands and improvised stuff would be a heck of a lot harder/slower. Another thing to consider, the air may be filtered... but in the collapsed building scenario, if the people inside need to get out, they are going to have to open doors/hatches. For those people, some type of military-style gas mask would be a good idea just in case their were noxious fumes etc. Military masks use cartridges that are consumables... but they come sealed in cans that will last for years on the shelf if you keep them sealed.

    There's a ton of good literature out there about disaster preparedness. Some of the best stuff you will ever find is nuclear war survival books from the 1970s. All kinds of usefull information about how to store food, clean water, filter air, basic human needs etc. My dad had a great one back in the day called "Doomsday: a survivalists guide to nuclear war and other major disasters". Pic on the cover of a big H-bomb test. Good tech. :thumb:

    How much budget do you have to accomplish the task? Does NY state have any literature on this kind of thing? Its been awhile since 911... there has to be some official info available.

    Also, since it seems this is going to be a working-shelter... what do you really need to carry out the daily routine? Not even sure what kind of biz you are in... but it could be relevant. Is this a place to go simply to survive, or are you planning on doing everything you do in your current office at the emergency site? How long would it take to get everyone from your normal operations site to the emergency site? What if a terrorist attack has caused pandamonium on the streets... how long will it take then? Is it walking distance or will you have to drive to get there? From the way you talk about it, that could be its biggest shortcoming...

    anyway, you have be excited about the project... give us more info! :thumb:

    j
     
  9. thezentree

    thezentree 3/4 ton status

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    He called and said he's running late, but He's bringing green bean casserole.
     
  10. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    Ahhh what a relief, I've got the potato salad, any word on the fish or loaves???:D
     
  11. thezentree

    thezentree 3/4 ton status

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    No, but I think we've got wine covered :rotfl:
     
  12. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Saweet, I knew you'd have good stuff to add. :waytogo:

    There's no budget for it right now... My boss even told me not to think about it. But, the site is going to be completely mine and the current major projects will be completed in 3 months, after which I'll be worrying about this stuff.

    I'm psyched about it, but can't really be, this is the fantasizing stage right now.
    I wouldn't want to run all biz functions from there, only about 3. It's a communications company (kind of an understatement). The main operations can be automated, but only for short periods. If we had to operate from here, it would either be because our primary facility suffered major damage, or there was public catastrophy. We could automate for primary facility damage, but for a mass catastrophy, we would need to run operations partially automated, but with operators full time babysitting at the least.
    In catastrophy, we would need three people to operate shifts for the primary/critical biz function. 1 technical person would be necessary for equiment failure recovery, but *may* also be a primary operator. Other than that, no one would be *necessary*. 2 more support people would be preferred, but I guess determined by the situation.
    The key is getting people to the site from their homes, rather than from the primary location. We can get from primary to shelter in 20 minutes with normal traffic. If the streets are cleared (like NYC on 9/11), they can get there in 10 minutes. If the streets are jammed, we'd have to get a police escort and then who knows how long. But people living closer to it would get emergency access keys and codes, and would be expected to get there and initiate primary operations as soon as notified. Some may be in walking distance, but normal staff changes would affect that. That's another thought... Maybe I should make enough room for a family of 3, so if there's some bizarre event, the nearby person can take his family in (he'd be more likely to refuse to go, and I wouldn't want him to, if it looked too grim to leave his family).
    In a building disaster, management and staff can work from home, and we would only need one operator, possibly a tech person also, on duty at all times. If just our building is down, then no one needs to live in the shelter, just drive over and work their shift from it.

    I would like to set a budget for it at $2 mil for construction and prep (not purchasing new equipment, but using existing backup stuff), but reality is probably going to be far less, probably less than $1m. The concrete work alone would probably be $500k (number pulled from my arse). I know of other similar projects that got pitiful funding and had to hide it in other projects (pork barrelling?), and I know of another upcoming project in the region that's getting a big chunk of change, so I may not get budget for this for years. I think at best, next year I'll get enough to buy a shipping container and run some light bulbs to it. :haha:

    One thing I'd like to prepare for is the loss of New York city. I would expect my area to be cut off from the entire world for a few days if a nuke or earthquake happened in NYC. All supplies and most communications run through NYC for Long Island, so if it were wiped out or utilities badly damaged, most stuff wouldn't work. I think a lot of satellite interfaces are in NYC, too, so satellite phones would probably be temporarily down, too. Short wave radio guys would probably be the heros of communications in a situation like that.
     
  13. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    BTW, I really like the multiple exit idea. Two or three remote hatches would be perfect, so if a tower fell over the site, we could get out from an unblocked hatch. The towers aren't buildings, they're communications towers, a cuople hundred feet of steel, some self-supporting, some guyed. The nearest one, the one that would actually hit us, is guyed, so I think it's fall could be somewhat mappable by calculation of each guy wire breaking.
    We could have it in the center of 4 acres, so that would minimize building wreckage around it, even if the surrounding neighborhoods were levelled. Trees would probably be the biggest issue since the site is wooded, but most would have to be removed for this, then could be kept off it after it's completed.
     
  14. camiswelding

    camiswelding 1/2 ton status

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    pre fab units are available

    more than one hardened entrance/// camo'd???

    nitrogen packed foodstuffs

    as jek said.. what are you REALISTICALLY preparing for... natural disaster with some higher level of security?

    Dont tell the government

    cell phone/landline.. backhoe on site
     
  15. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Get a truck with enough gear to run the business loaded on board, large reserve tank topped off, a sleeper cab, a small generator and a satellite phone. Watch the news. Leave before the hurricane. Go back when its safe.
     
  16. kyser_soze

    kyser_soze 1/2 ton status

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    Diesel generator capable enough to handle your emergency power needs and enough fuel to last as long as you think the crisis will last.
































    and a porn wing.:D
     
  17. RustyParts

    RustyParts 1/2 ton status

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    If your in communications better think about protection for your electronics, one good EMP blast will ruin it. Need a tube type radios for keeping in touch with the outside.
     
  18. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    What about a kegarator:D and why do you need a conference room? I would make a game room instead. Maybe some pool tables and what not. It could get boring and you would need something to do.
     
  19. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

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    Id say definitely a firearm or two. 3 or four mossberg 500's . Better to have 'em and not need them, than need them and not have them.
     
  20. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    I agree and I'd love to, but there's no possible way my company would purchase firearms unless I were NRA certified and it went wayyyy over my boss's head, and there was some sort of police certification and big lockdown and control mechanism. He and I have already had our gun debate...
     

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