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Inboarded leaf springs

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 84_Chevy_K10, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Ok, so in the leaf spring discussion 63s were discussed. I don't have the room to do it outside of the frame, so someone mentioned inboarding them.

    Now, I was just going to inboard my shocks and run the springs outside the frame. But, now I'm thinking the total opposite.

    If I were to flip-flop the springs to the inside of the frame, I think I could gain serious flex. I could even run some fairly stiff springs to be assured that axlewrap would be kept to a minimum.

    I figure if I do so, I'll run some 14" travel Bilstein 5150s on the outside of the frame, mounted straight up and down, to try to control it, of course along with good bumpstops and limiting straps.

    The question is, will that be enough? The goal here is to make the rig MORE stable by gaining rear flex, and I fear that this may place so much leverage on the springs that I'll seriously lose stability.

    What do you guys think? Too tippy? Has anyone tried this? Pictures?

    Somehow the more I think about it, the more I'm trying to balance 6,000 lbs on the head of a pin. That said, my truck isn't all that heavy in the rear, and those that use coils/coilovers usually inboard them quite a ways, so it might not be as tippy as I think.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    I don't know about on a pickup but my 63's are quite tippy even though they're mounted outside the frame. I can't imagine needing more articulation since my tires hit everywhere under compression and my driveshaft can't handle the droop. My rig is a Blazer though, could be a different story for a pickup /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  3. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    If I was going to use 63s on a pickup i would have to move my front mount forward 6", which I would have to remove about 5" of gas tank to do so on my shortbox.

    No can do for now, so I was thinking inboarding it would be cool
     
  4. jac6695

    jac6695 1/2 ton status

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    I think that moving them inboard would make the truck unstable. I would suggest changing your gas tank (which is vulnurable to rock damage anyway) to a cell or Blazer/Sub tank behind the rear.
     
  5. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    No matter what springs I choose, you think it will be unstable?

    I'm going to be moving the tank anyway, thats not really the issue here.
     
  6. jac6695

    jac6695 1/2 ton status

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    I have 4" lift springs for a 88-98 GM 1/2 ton truck and mine feels a bit tippy on steep sidehills and angled climbs. I think that it would be worse with the springs in more, but you will have more travel and could always add a swaybar later if you don't like it. Key would be keeping the weight down and low.
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I agree. But one thing I've yet to figure out is how Matt goes SO far off camber without tipping. I know he is wider by using 2" b.s. 10" wide wheels with his 42" TSLs, but with the flex he has, I still can't figure out how he keeps it on all 4 some times (well, except for those times when he doesn't /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif)...
     
  8. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    So, too tippy?

    Back to the drawing board, damnit!!!
     
  9. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    I inboarded my rear springs to directly under the frame. I however didn't go any longer with the rears. I cannot atest to the tippyness of the whole idea though. Still haven't been able to test it. You will get more flex with the same springs the further in that you move them.
     
  10. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    2 guys in the SoCalBigDawgs have inboarded leaves in the rear. Chris (the beater) has inboarded 52's and zcarczar's dad's truck has inboarded 63's I think.

    Chris' truck was the beat to hell red k5 in TTC last year.
    The other is the black 1st gen that zcarczar posted in your last post.
     
  11. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    So are you friends with Louis from RTC, the guy with teh white blazer with purple flames?

    He said he knew Chris, the owner of the beater.

    I think I'm just going to move the tank and leave the 63s outboard, but time will tell I guess. I'm going to make one more run on this suspension at least, first.
     
  12. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So are you friends with Louis from RTC, the guy with teh white blazer with purple flames?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Can't say I have met him...

    I don't think you will have a lack of flex with the 63's no matter where you put them. Their spring rate is around 170# for the 4 leaf ones /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif
     
  13. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    I cant see alot of benefit of moving the springs inboard when they seem to work pretty well on the outside of the frame and yield good flex.... Going to a stiffer spring would seem to be take any of the benfit of going inboard....
     
  14. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Going to a stiffer spring would seem to be take any of the benfit of going inboard....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No way, with them inboarded, it wouldn't matter what the spring rate was, they'd flex like mad anyway with a 38.5" swamper 2' away putting leverage on them.

    That said, I'm moving my fuel tank to the bed and putting them outside the frame. Justinf has a 40 gallon tank that I'm going to put in the bed and take off my saddle tanks, followed by moving my mount forward 4" or so and doing a homebrew shackle flip with JC Whitney lowering shackles to achieve the ride height I want.

    I am going for about 4" of lift and the 38.5s and I hope to flex 800 or more on a 30* with 119" of wheelbase.
     
  15. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So, too tippy?

    Back to the drawing board, damnit!!!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    No, not too tippy at all on Matts. That's what I meant about I couldn't believe how far he goes over side ways before flopping. I know the in-boarded springs make it more tippy than out-boarded, but it seems his is still quite stable in spite of the springs being in-boarded. No idea why.
     
  16. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    No way, with them inboarded, it wouldn't matter what the spring rate was, they'd flex like mad anyway with a 38.5" swamper 2' away putting leverage on them.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Spring rate will still matter.. Sure the added leverage would help, but a stiffer spring will flex less than a low rate spring in any location. You get alot of flex out of coilovers, but there are people that change their rates in them until they get a good combo going. They dont just throw a heavier rate in and be done with it cause the CO will flex more.
     
  17. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I disagree. Higher spring rate doesn't mean that the spring flexes LESS, just that it requires more force to do so.
     
  18. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    So, too tippy?

    Back to the drawing board, damnit!!!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    No, not too tippy at all on Matts. That's what I meant about I couldn't believe how far he goes over side ways before flopping. I know the in-boarded springs make it more tippy than out-boarded, but it seems his is still quite stable in spite of the springs being in-boarded. No idea why.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Could it be the size/weight of his axles/wheels/tires giving him couterbalance. I would think with a light enough tub/box in the rear, the weight and leverage of that tire/wheel combination would give some great couterweight to the body tipping. I could be wrong, but just a thought as something has to keep him from rolling (again except for the times he does...).
     
  19. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    If you have a brand X 6" spring with a soft spring rate and have a Brand X 6" springs that is HD, the HD will flex less due to the higher spring rate. Why do you think people who are after flex try and find springs with the lowest spring rates?
     
  20. marv_springer

    marv_springer 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I disagree. Higher spring rate doesn't mean that the spring flexes LESS, just that it requires more force to do so.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Errr..?.?. /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif

    Spring rate is expressed in lbf/in. So for the same force (lbf) applied to 2 springs - the one w/ the softer spring rate will deflect more (in)... The spring with the stiffer rate can be made to deflect as much as the soft one w/ more force.... but where do you get more force from/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif...?? - and if you had the softer spring in there with the higher load, it would deflect even more.

    Marv
     

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