Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

Installing new lifters.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 454k30, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. 454k30

    454k30 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Posts:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California, MD
    Is there anything that needs to be done with new lifters prior to installing them? Do they need to soak in oil or anything like that. Also since I have this thing apart, are roller rockers a good idea? This motor never sees much more than 3500rpm so I dont know if I'd get any benefits from them.
     
  2. goldwing2000

    goldwing2000 Guest

    Yes, you need to soak them in oil overnight and also use a pushrod to "pump them up" while they're soaking to get most of the air out.

    Roller rockers will help reduce friction in the valvetrain and should help free up some HP through the rpm range. They're not strictly necessary on a low-rpm engine but it definitely couldn't hurt. Just depends on if you want to spend the money or not.

    Are you doing roller lifters or flat?
     
  3. 454k30

    454k30 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Posts:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California, MD
    they are flat. I thought about doing a roller but dont you have to have a cam that is designed for that as well?
     
  4. 1977k5

    1977k5 3/4 ton status Vendor

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Posts:
    9,996
    Likes Received:
    134
    Roller lifters need roller cams and vice versa.
     
  5. goldwing2000

    goldwing2000 Guest

    No. You can use roller lifters on a flat-tappet cam if they're designed as retro-fit replacements. You just can't use flat lifters on a roller cam.

    It'll still cost you $450+ for a set, though.

    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SLP%2DHT5000RA&autoview=sku
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2007
  6. Seafarer76

    Seafarer76 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Posts:
    340
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    Comp Cams specifically recommends against pumping the lifters up as this can lead to improper preload. Just soak em in oil before you install them. Make sure you use break-in lube on the faces when you install them.

    Why do you need to replace just the lifters?
     
  7. 454k30

    454k30 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Posts:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California, MD
    I had what sounded like your run of the mill rocker noise but when I tried to adjust the intake on the #2 cylinder there was no resistance from the lifter. I took it out, took it apart and found the spring inside all messed up, I'll try to take a photo when I have some light. I figured that since I was in there I would replace all the lifters not just the one, just in case.
     
  8. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Posts:
    22,063
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Pleasanton, CA.
    NO, you can ABSOLUTELY NOT use roller lifters on any cam other than a roller cam. Hydraulic flat tappet lifters can only be used on a hydraulic cam, solid lifters only on a solid cam. The cams are made of different materials and also a roller cam has much quicker ramp rates and will chew up any other lifter in seconds. :deal:

    Retro lifters means they have a cross bar to locate the lifter and nothing else.
     
  9. goldwing2000

    goldwing2000 Guest

    Nothing you said there gives any reason why you can't use roller lifters on a flat tappet cam.

    But yeah... you're right. I'm wrong. I'm just a dummy-head. :rolleyes:
     
  10. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,982
    Likes Received:
    191
    Location:
    Roy WA
    The reason is that flat tappet cams have a taper ground on the lobes. This is what rotates the flat tappet lifter under operation, and why a flat tappet cam doesn't need a thrust bearing like a roller cam does. The load on the lobes from the valvetrain keep the cam in place.

    Roller cam lobes are perfectly flat, thus there is nothing to keep the cam from shooting out the front of the block....enter the thrust bearing/bushing/whatever you use.

    Roller lifter on flat tappet cam means the roller is hitting only one very small portion of the cam, and barring metal strength issues, the lobe or roller would fail in short order.

    There is a post a year or so back about "pumping up" hydraulic flat tappet lifters for installation. End result was, it doesn't matter. Either you set them up right, or you don't. No oil, zero lash plus half turn has always worked for me with new cams and or lifters, but doesn't mean it's the only way to do it. I've adjusted them after running as well, no problems with that method.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2007
  11. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Posts:
    22,063
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Pleasanton, CA.
    Thanks Dorian. Some people don't understand the taper part of a cam lobe so i did not even mention it. The fact that he doesn't understand means that he'll probably try it and find out the hard way, oh well.

    Funny how he also said that nothing i said says why it can't be done but i clearly said the cams are made of different materials and also explained why flat tappet lifters can't be used on roller cams. Guess maybe i should have explained the other way around instead.

    He probably did not look at my profile either to find out what i do for a living.
     
  12. goldwing2000

    goldwing2000 Guest

    Nobody said flat lifters can be used on roller cams. That's just asinine (and obvious).

    Material doesn't make any difference to a roller.

    I don't give a rat's ass what you do for a living.

    And arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

    Done and done.
     
  13. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Posts:
    22,063
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Pleasanton, CA.
    Getting all defensive now that you've been found WRONG and you feel the need to make up excuses to make yourself feel better or look better. I will argue a point that i know i'm correct on until i'm blue in the face. This isn't the first time you've disagreed with me but giving a guy incorrect info isn't cool. You could cost the guy an engine someday. :crazy:
     
  14. goldwing2000

    goldwing2000 Guest

    I'm not defensive, I'm not making excuses and I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. However, the majority of what you've posted, while possibly accurate, has been mostly irrelevant to the issue and has FAR from proven anything right or wrong.

    dyeager535's post at least made sense and was pertinent to the argument but I'm still going to do some more reasearch before I agree with it whole-heartedly. For now, I'll leave it with a "maybe".
     
  15. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,982
    Likes Received:
    191
    Location:
    Roy WA
    http://compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/324.pdf

    "Thrust Buttons" description states that, and being from a cam manufacturer, I think that can be considered authoritative, no? :)

    You can find similar comments from chev hi performance, etc., if you search the web for "flat tappet cam design tapered lobes" (no quotes obviously)
     
  16. wasted wages

    wasted wages 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    9,194
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Dallas Texas
    4X4HIGH wrote:



    goldwing2000 wrote:


    4X4HIGH's Profile:

    Occupation:
    Automotive machinist (20 years)



    goldwing2000's Profile:
    Biography:
    I am a floor repair expert!



    just my .02,,,but my money is on 4X4HIGH...
     
  17. Seafarer76

    Seafarer76 1/2 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Posts:
    340
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    x2

    Not even sure why he felt the need for post #12...
     
  18. 454k30

    454k30 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Posts:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California, MD
    I appreciate the info guys. I got the new lifters in today before I had to go to work. I went to zero lash and then a half turn but the rockers still wiggle around a small amount. Is that okay or should I go a quarter turn more? These are comp lifters that seem to be nice pieces. I decided not to go with roller rockers I'm going to put that money towards a correct size carb for my motor instead.
     
  19. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,982
    Likes Received:
    191
    Location:
    Roy WA
    You'll have some play based on the weak spring in the lifters.

    Go with Comps recommendations if they have any.
     
  20. 454k30

    454k30 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Posts:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California, MD
    thanks dyeager! I set them up as the comp instructions said. Should have it running today! First time in almost 3 months due to some other projects i had going on.
     

Share This Page