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it's kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?'s

Discussion in 'Tow & Trailer' started by 55Willy, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. 55Willy

    55Willy 3/4 ton status

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    it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    looking at a new tow rig. whats the main differences between a 12v and a 24v cummins, Yes I know twice as many valves but what about performance wise???

    when did the 24's come out mid 98's????
     
  2. BurbLover

    BurbLover 1/2 ton status

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    All I know is a friend of mine said it was a night/day difference with the power. He pulls a pontoon boat follwed by a trailer with 2 quads and a 9.5 foot camper in the bed all over the Colorado Mtns.
     
  3. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    12 valve has a fully mechanical inline pump whereas the 24 valve has an electronic rotary pump. The 12 valve is capable of flowing MUCH more fuel than any other light truck diesel out there, and is much simpler to diagnose problems on, repair, etc. The 24 valve is good if you just want to plug in a chip and go and not mess with delivery valves, pump timing, governors etc. Bottom line, reliability and cost wise you want a 12 valve, if you want ease of modification but with generally less power, you need a 24 valve. The 24 valve came out in the 98.5 model year and still continues today (with a different fuel system than the 98.5-2002 trucks).
     
  4. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    The earlier 12V cummins uses a fully mechanical m7p100 bosch mechanical pump, very easy and simple system and like said above will flow tons of fuel. The 24v has VP44 electronically controlled bosch injection pump. I personally prefer the later 24v because it is simple to add power by just a good programmer and have a lot more power at stock settings.

    I diagree with blueblazer62 to a point about getting more power out of a 12v than a 24v. The 24 valve is easier to get 350HP/900 ft lbs because the programmers available for the 24V are much more powerfull than the chips available for the late 12v. After what can be had with the stock fuel and air system, both motors use the same turbo and almost the same injectors. Not to mention the later HO 24V has a better turbo stock than the earlier motors. The 24v is capable of those crazy 700HP/1700ft lbs numbers but still being able to back off the power if needed. After those kinds of numbers only the 12V can touch.

    Don't forget that the dodge truck that the 24v comes in is a better truck than the 12V truck because many improvements were made mid 98 like brakes, steering and a new transmission. ALso the earlier 12V had a lot of tranny failures but the 24V got the newer 47RE that isn't the best but better and most importantly it can be built up to take almost anything. THe 6spd nv5600 was available starting in '00.
     
  5. 55Willy

    55Willy 3/4 ton status

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    the manuals are what I'm looking into. I diesel doesn't belong in front of an auto IMHO.
     
  6. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    [ QUOTE ]
    the manuals are what I'm looking into. I diesel doesn't belong in front of an auto IMHO.

    [/ QUOTE ]Than an '01 or '02 would be perfect for you because there was an optional 6 spd nv5600 and the best part is that the cummins had the "torqus maximus" ECM that cranked out 245/505 through the 6 spd box which was not available on the autos or previous years.
    Although I have driven both a manual and auto....I drove the 245/505 6 spd dodge and was not impressed by it's get up and go because of the manual. THe '01 235/465 auto that I tested the same day was fairly quicker.(I've been looking and test driving for one myself /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
    On another note, I think autos and diesels are a match made in heaven. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  7. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    [ QUOTE ]
    the programmers available for the 24V are much more powerfull than the chips available for the late 12v.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This right here shows that you are not very educated on this subject. The 12V has never had a chip, since it is fully mechanical. Look at the most highly modified pullers and even racers, they are 12V for a reason. Also, I dont know where you get this theory about not being able to "turn off" the fuel on a 12V like on a 24V. The governor will only inject as much fuel as it takes to make the power the driver needs. In other words, if the driver only wants a little power, less fuel will be injected, no matter if the system is mechanical or electronic. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  8. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    I stand corrected on the chip subject, for some reason I had the edge 65HP chip in my head thinking that it was for the earlier models. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif

    As for "turning off" the fuel...thats simply not what I meant. With a 24v motor that has a selectable programmer you can switch between different power levels making it easier to use as a daily driver. Turn on the power when needed but also control it and save the motor and drivetrain by backing off the power. I am guessing that you mean someone can back off the fuel with a 12V...I am guessing you mean turn the pump down. That requires a tool and having to pop the hood everytime you want more or less fuel. ALso if the motor is built with an HX40 or bigger or twins along with huge amounts of fuel that is not streetable. Having those hardcore pulling parts make it harder to use it at a modest power level that is streetable.

    In my book a good intake, exhaust, maybe mild injectors, and a good programmer like the Edge comp box will make plenty of power for most people, enough to destroy trannies, clutches and shortlive the motor itself eventually if always left on max power.
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    He means removing the brick from the accelerator. If you're not on it, it won't inject fuel at that kind of rate.
     
  10. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    Exactly, it seems you are learning the diesel ways grasshopper /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif RJF, you need to read up on how diesel engine governors work and then you will see how your right foot controls the fuel rate, not the chip or pump you have on the engine. Those things control the MAX fuel rate and timing of the injection, not the amount of fuel it takes to say cruise down the highway. Also, the reason a lot of the racing and pulling diesels are unstreetable is the fact that they almost always have bigger cams than stock, turbo systems that have a pretty good amount of lag (in exchange for huge amounts of boost), and timing so advanced that it takes all the starter can give to crank the engine over to start it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  11. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    Regulating your throttle input? Maybe diesels are different but on a gas motor built as extreme as some of these diesels, just keeping you foot out of them doesn't work. Maybe governors respond different than carbs and throttle bodies. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  12. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    [ QUOTE ]
    Maybe governors respond different than carbs and throttle bodies.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, they do. In a gas engine, since you have to always run at or near stochiometric(sp?), the more air an engine brings in, the more fuel it needs to keep it from running lean. So, say in a gas engine with big cubes, big cam, and a big carb, even at low load you will be bringing in tons of air, which means you need more fuel. This is not the case with a diesel since it can run very lean of stochiometric. Since all youre bringing in is air, the amount of fuel you inject determines what speed the engine will run at with a given load. So, in a diesel, the pump only injects as much fuel as the engine needs to keep the rpm the operator is wanting with a given load. Like I said before, the reason the really built diesels dont run good on the street is mostly because of the very advanced timing and a lot of times low compression pistons, not that the engine is constantly overfueling making it hard to control. If you ever get on the TDR, you will see that plenty of guys with gobs of hp and tq drive their trucks daily, or at least to the track. This is because if they dont need the power driving around town, they simply just dont give as much throttle input. I hope this all made sense /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  13. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    Exactly.

    In other words, crank the **** out of your mechanical Diesel and just only beat on it when you've got a big trailer behind you.
     
  14. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: it\'s kinda towing related.... dodge diesel ?\'s

    hmmm.... /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     

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