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Last alternator question I swear!!!!!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by VisionxOrb, Nov 8, 2003.

  1. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    Hi everone, ok 1 question. The wires the go to the alt I have to redo because they dont work, so, the voltage sense is a no brainer, but the switched 12pos that is supposed to go through the idiot light, how would I do that with out a light. That terminal becomes ground when the alt isnt spinning so if there was no light it would just act as a short and cause problems. is there anything else I could do??? a resistor or somthing??? /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif
     
  2. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    Anyone? please, this is the only thing between me and driving, I appreciat any help, thanks in advance.
     
  3. 99firehawk

    99firehawk 1/2 ton status

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    I dont understad what you are asking? If you dont want to use a idiot light or guage then just dont hook up the wire.
    you only need the alt grounded to engine, a hot "charge" wire and a 12v ign on to excite the alt.
     
  4. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I dont understad what you are asking? If you dont want to use a idiot light or guage then just dont hook up the wire.
    you only need the alt grounded to engine, a hot "charge" wire and a 12v ign on to excite the alt.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What Im saying is that the 12v to excite the alt is supposed to go through the light because when the alt isnt spinning ( ie key set to on my motor not running ) the terminal on the alt becomes a ground ( to light up the idiot light ect) I figure just a straght 12v with no resistance ( ie light or resitor ) would basicly act as a short and cause problems in the ubove situation.
     
  5. 99firehawk

    99firehawk 1/2 ton status

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    IS this a regular gm 2 wire alt?
     
  6. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    Its your standard 10/12 si unit 3 wire
     
  7. k5guyva

    k5guyva 1/2 ton status

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    The wire going to the idiot lamp is not strictly needed for the charging circuit to operate. If you don't plan on using the lamp, just put a wire nut on the loose end and tape it off with electrical tape. If you are wiring this from scratch, you should know that both of the wires from the alternator (12v sense and 12v charge) should go down to the starter and have fusible links in them.
     
  8. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The wire going to the idiot lamp is not strictly needed for the charging circuit to operate. If you don't plan on using the lamp, just put a wire nut on the loose end and tape it off with electrical tape. If you are wiring this from scratch, you should know that both of the wires from the alternator (12v sense and 12v charge) should go down to the starter and have fusible links in them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Its not that I dont want to use the lamp, there is no lamp to use, so I was just gonna wire it simply. basicly though if I connect the 12 charge to the alt directly there should be no problem? even when the terminal turns to ground?
     
  9. k5guyva

    k5guyva 1/2 ton status

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    If you connect the 12v wire for the lamp to the terminal, you will short out the wire, and you can start a fire. In the wiring diagram I have, I show a fuse in that circuit. It will blow that fuse. Do not connect that wire without a lamp. You can leave it disconnected, if you do not have a lamp.
     
  10. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You can leave it disconnected, if you do not have a lamp.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, I tried that but the alt wont start charging. then I tried pulling that wire off while it was charging and it stopped charging, so im wondering, many vehicals have come with out an idiot light ( voltage gauge instead ) what do these vheicles use???
     
  11. k5guyva

    k5guyva 1/2 ton status

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    I think you have something wired wrong. Here is a clip of the electrical diagram. The two wires running off the image to the left connect to fusible links and to the starter solonoid.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I think you have something wired wrong. Here is a clip of the electrical diagram. The two wires running off the image to the left connect to fusible links and to the starter solonoid.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Right, the 2 going off to the left are not the ones in question, B ( 1 ) is the wire in question. A (2) is the votlage sense and the battery cable Ive already done. B is the wire that energizes the alternator makeing it charge,Ive tried doing things with out it to see if it would self excite,no go so it has to be connected but im not sure how people do it with out a light with out the fear of a short when the B spot becomes a ground when the alt is not spinning ( ie key on engine off ).
     
  13. k5guyva

    k5guyva 1/2 ton status

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    So add a lamp to the circuit. Radio shack and many auto parts places have them. You do not want to connect the output of the alternator to ground. I also suspect that you have switched the A and B terminals somehow.

    12v lamp from Radio Shack.
     
  14. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So add a lamp to the circuit. Radio shack and many auto parts places have them. You do not want to connect the output of the alternator to ground. I also suspect that you have switched the A and B terminals somehow.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think there is some error in our communication, but yeah im just gonna get the lamp to be on the safe side I guess, i was trying to avoid any extra wiring but its inevitable, any way the alt's out put is not going to ground lol its going through the orginal BATT cable plus a second one that goes straight to the battery ( higher outpul alt ) I dont think I have a and b reversed because I did a second check and compared that to the si to cs adapter I have for a different alt where B runs to L on the CS and A runs to S on the cs-144 and on your wireing diagram you posted it has B as 1 and A as 2, but anyway thanks for the think the radio shack light ought to work, ill just have it under the hood.
     
  15. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    this is funny, I put the light in the line and it just stays lit, and the alt wont charge so I grabed a 1157 bulb thinking maybe the other doent pass enough current and put that in the line, heres the funny part, the alt charges then but the light still stays on.
     
  16. k5guyva

    k5guyva 1/2 ton status

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    Do you have a voltmeter to test what the voltages are on each side of the lamp? Check the side that connects to the fuse box, and make sure the fuse is still good.
     
  17. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    How are you determining that the Alt is charging if the light stays on ?

    If the Alt is charging it should be putting 12VDC+ into that wire and the light would go out with 12V+ on each side.

    You can use any kind of light for this. I used a re-wired truck side marker light for work's Forklift.
     
  18. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    How are you determining that the Alt is charging if the light stays on ?

    If the Alt is charging it should be putting 12VDC+ into that wire and the light would go out with 12V+ on each side.

    You can use any kind of light for this. I used a re-wired truck side marker light for work's Forklift.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can tell when its charging by way of my multimeter, voltage goes from low 12 to about 14.5, I know the alt supposed to supply 12 volt to that terminal when its charging but I guess its not, when I disconnet that lead while its charging it stops. there is no end at the fuse box for this at the moment, this is in my 72 camaro (which has my blazers engine at the moment /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) which I think orignialy had a external regulated system but got converted but the orginal owner was a wiring nightmare, wires are butchared everywhere plus there all sprayed black so none of the orginal colors can be figured out which is why im running new wires
     
  19. k5guyva

    k5guyva 1/2 ton status

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    I think the problem is that you don't understand the circuit. The alt provides 12-14v to the lamp. The fuse box provides 12v to the other side of the lamp. Under normal operation, this should keep the lamp off. If the battery voltage drops (bad battery) or the alternator output drops (bad alternator), then the lamp lights up indictating an electrical problem. The alternator does not provide power to the fuse box in this circuit.
     
  20. VisionxOrb

    VisionxOrb 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I think the problem is that you don't understand the circuit. The alt provides 12-14v to the lamp. The fuse box provides 12v to the other side of the lamp. Under normal operation, this should keep the lamp off. If the battery voltage drops (bad battery) or the alternator output drops (bad alternator),then the lamp lights up indictating an electrical problem. The alternator does not provide power to the fuse box in this circuit.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    All this I know, although its not connected to a fusebox directly at the moment Im using a switched 12v circuit I added that turns on some other things under the hood, I know when the alt is not charging the termial is ground so power flows through the light to that ground and it lights up and when the alt is charging that terminal becomes 12v+ and with 12v+ on both sides of the light it doesnt light, but what Im saying is this isnt occuring. with the small radio shack light in there the light stays lit and no charging, w/ strait wire it charges, w/ 1157 light dim side light stays lit no charging, w/ 1157 bright side stays lit but charges. I guess its possible the alt has issues even though its relitivly new but Im worried about dropping in my CS144 from my truck if there is somthing wrong with the wiring, although my adapter harness for that contains a resitor in it "for systems without a warning light".
     

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